I thought maybe Jimmy Church would have more spine than, say, George Noory, and perhaps challenge Bara over his wild fantasies. As it turned out, he did balk at the miles-high glass towers on the Moon, but willingly lapped up all the "unmistakably artificial" Martian objects that Chapter 8 of the book is all about.
Mike presented his usual argument from (very dubious) authority -- "I'm an engineer and I know a mechanical object when I see one." He's deluded. I made a list of the figures from Chapter 8 so you can interpret the online gallery without having to buy the wretched book. Numbers at left are page numbers.
The Martian Junkyard
192 (2 images) Banyan trees
193 Sand slides
194 Palm trees (upside down)
195 Slot rock
196 Slot rock with metallic gleam
197 Three "mechanical objects" from the Spirit rover (extremely fuzzy)
198 Machined fitting (extremely fuzzy)
199 Martian "blueberry" compared with a pentremite fossil
200 Martian "crinoid" compared with a crinoid fossil (sourced)
202 Dinosaur skulls (sourced)
203 Dinosaur skulls compared with real skulls
204,205,206 The "humanoid skull" (sourced)
208,209,210 The figurine
211a An air conditioning unit (fuzzy)
211b Bent sheet metal
212a Partly buried "technological objects" (sourced)
212b The "spoke"
213 A wrench
214 A cowbell and a gearbox
215 Sheet metal cased objects with circuit boards
216 Metal cased object
217 Circuit boards
219 Object with rectangular slot
220 Hubcap and valve stem
221 Eroded sheet metal
222 A turbocharger
223 A tank and a cylinder (also shown in the 8-page color signature) (sourced)
Here's the point. Mike Bara cannot possibly know that these objects are what he says they are. In reality, the most he can say is that they look like "a wrench, a circuit board, a hubcap....etc." As one of the Amazon reviewers wrote, it isn't enough that it looks like a duck. It has to walk like a duck and quack like a duck, too, before you can be fairly confident that it's a duck. Translating that into science reality, to be remotely convincing he'd have to give us supporting data. Geochemistry, metallurgy, for example -- even some context and scale would help. Does such data exist? Maybe -- we can't tell because 90% of his images come at us without any reference to the original images in the various online libraries. Bara himself has written on more than one occasion that random imagery without such references is useless. So Chapter 8 belongs in the bin along with the rest of the book.
The debate that almost happened
Stuart Robbins, the astronomer who Mike Bara hates and insults even more than he does me, has given up trying to stage the radio debate with Mike on Coast to Coast AM that was agreed to last year. He has half-persuaded Jimmy Church to host such a debate, and the prospect was discussed this week. Jimmy said he thought it would "make good radio," and Mike seemed to agree, but then backed off somewhat with "What's in it for me?"
Late in the show, with only about 12 minutes to go, Stuart got through on the call-in line and it seemed a deal might be made there and then. However, Jimmy Church inadvertently dropped the connection to Bara so that was that.
To make conversation, Jimmy asked Stuart to comment on an image that Bara says is a flying saucer on the Moon. It's one of his details from AS11-38-5564.
Stuart played it exactly right, saying "I have no idea [what it is]" and adding "That's what we do in science -- if you can't really pull it out of your data, then you have to say 'I'm not sure, we need better data.'" If only Mike Bara the infallible engineer would understand that.
PS. Here's the "flying saucer" in context, at the extreme left edge of the Moon, showing how those angular shadows get created.
23 comments:
More cowbell!
I would really like to see legal action taken against Mr. Bara for his regular claims and inferences that he is an engineer. I have a degree in mechanical engineering, already making me more qualified on such subjects than he is, but I cannot actually call myself an engineer since I am not licensed by a professional organization. Where I live, qualification for a license requires first working under a professional engineer for four years as an engineer-in-training while meeting several criteria. At that point an application is made and tests must be written.
I would suggest collecting any documentation showing Mr. Bara representing himself as an engineer (if he wasn't smart enough to 'frame' it appropriately) in order to gain professional credibility, and then submit it to the engineering association of his residency.
GFP2216: I wouldn't care to do that myself, but I see your point. I also have an engineering degree from a respected university, but since I haven't practiced any engineering for at least 30 years I would'nt dream of describing myself as such.
Glad you posted context. So, it looks like because this was a perspective shot (which I mentioned when I called in), you get the sharp "angle" appearing because of a crater wall cutting across the same shadow that the other wall is casting.
Exactly, Stuart. This is a really oblique angle.
Does anyone have the coordinates for this 'UFO', so that we can check it on the LRO photos?
I sure don't. Unfortunately mag 38 is not annotated in the LPI library.
The biggie crater in the middle might be Lebedinsky. 7.8°N, 164.8°W.
The context of the shadow can be seen more clearly in AS11-38-5566 - it´s just inside of Aitken crater. Lining up features shows that the view is almost due south, so the shadow has to be near the eastern crater rim. A likely candidate is the hill in the center of this view: http://bit.ly/1l2ZAX8 (zoom out for context).
Anon: TVM for the research. The hill is just part of the rim of Aitken, right?
Yes, I see. To me it's a matter of semantics whether you call that a hill inside the crater, or part of the wall.
And the wretched book gets another bizarre five-star review on Amazon today!
I heard Mike Bara and The Mad Martian are at odds. Mad Martian states Bara is a 'fat fuck' who is pretending to be an authority of Mars findings & mars research.Stating that Mike Bara not once, but twice used a couple of Mad Martian's findings for his recent books ANCIENT ALIENS ON MARS 1 & 2.
Mad martian states Bara deliberately misspelled Mad martian's name wrong, his real name Gary Leggiere, in his 1st Ancint Aliens book. As trivial as this is, The Mad Martian appears to be valid in his claims & also provides reasoning. he states Bara did that to deliberately personally smear Gary's credibility in his research of Mars, especially in regards to Bara's friend & colleague Richard Hoagland in his cover up & conspiracy of suppressing secret old yet new image data showing other secret faces of mars imaged by Viking, that was never released to the public. As far as I can see from Gary's work, he has plenty of reasons to be MAD MARTIAN!
But Mike Bara seemed to have fixed the spelling of Gary's name in his second Ancient Aliens on Mars book, where Gary provided yet another find of his from Mars to Mike Bara, despite what Bara 1st did to him.
What I find interesting & revealing of bara's nature is that Gary publicly stated that Bara begged him for those finds to be included in his books, making promises to Gary that his find (the 1st one used) will be seen on Ancient Aliens & Gary can be on that Ancient aliens show speaking about it. As well as telling Gary he will invite Gary to a conference to show & speak about it as well. Lo & behold, they not call him Mad Martian for nothing!
Mike Bara has not even sent a copy of his new Ancient Aliens on Mars book to Gary. Gary blatantly told Bara to 'STICK IT UP HIS ASS'! That Mike Bara is a liar, a fraud, & a pretentious individual with schemes of fame for himself that is certainly unwarrented, and not credible. Mike Bara according to Gary's take on him, is making money by gullible & interested peoples, in which Bara is trying to initiate an idea of theory as fact regards to Ancient Aliens being responsible. Yet no fact has been nailed shut regards to this 'THEORY'. Gary is open minded to it as possibility, but he makes sense when he says we need more data to determine the truth of facts in that regard. he says someones are trying to create a mindset trend to where data be damned. Mike Bara also according to Gary, is not a serious Mars researcher & should not be acting like an authority of Mars anomalies as Mike Bara was NOT a Mars researcher at all! He was just connected to one.... Hoagland! It seems gary is stepping up his campaign against Hoagland & also now focusing in on Mike Bara.
Gary also states Mike Bara shows he is NOT a serious Mars researcher out for the truth, because Gary states that if he were, he will also publicly hound Hoagland for the TRUTH of the UFO DIARIES, & the secret images showing other Faces of Mars that he & NASA kept suppressed from us all since they were imaged. Yet Gary was & still seems the only one trying to get us all the Truth. especially more so since the things that were done to him by Hoagland & dr. Robin to try to destroy Gary. Yet where is Mike Bara who is on tv shows, & is pretentious of himself & his claims? if he were serious, Mike bara would have mentioned about this case, since he is also closely connected to Hoagland.
By what I am seeing you & others post in messages here, gives Gary added credibility of his claims of Bara's nature & how he is using others work for personal gain & trying to add personal fame by pretending to be an authority of Mars anomalies. In my opinion, Mike Bara owes Gary a huge PUBLIC APOLOGY, as well as to us all for his antics against Gary & others who seek & had their lives effected negatively by those who wish to keep secrets. He wants people to look to him & his work & think of him as someone out for the truth, for the people. If Gary is correct, in what he says, Mike Bara not knows what is coming his way next.
I started reading & watching of this Mad Martian last year. Maybe you can help him to fight for us all to get the truth & these secret faces of Mars? An unlikely alliance to work together to bring us all what we need THE TRUTH!!
No, I'm not going to help Gary in his aggressive quest. As I've said before, I'm sympathetic because I do believe Gary was treated badly, but the "other faces" images don't exist. They were just set dressing.
Hi Expat. Oh, you have spoken with Gary before about this case? or what do you mean as you have said before?
I agree his quest is aggressive & by what I can tell, he is right & brave in doing so. I mean, what would you have done if you were handled that way? especially that all having happened to him & his family, for an investigation which he was encouraged to investigate to begin with, by the same person responsible for causing that harm?
This guy not takes any shit it seems & Hoagland apparently has been using him, according to Gary, that this all going on between them is some type of acclamation program, to acclamate the public to these secret images showing other Faces of Mars. Which gary says Hoagland was not allowed nor is still not allowed to speak about them. Yet he provided them for the producers to be filmed & even coded into place to test our intelligence if we can see it, as well as figure out a question asked in UFO Diaries. That question gary says is; "Surely no intelligent life, can survive there?"
I was confused at first until I started looking into his information he provided & provides. Lots of evidence also in fact showing Hoagland encouaging Gary to investigate. Hoagland has wiped that information off of Enterprise mission conference, to try to erase Gary's existence or participation over the years there which he was an honorary member. All because of a few images the public never seen before? this not makes sense.
Which now brings me to your statement. You said; "but the "other faces" images don't exist. They were just set dressing."
Really? They do not exist? Wow. How do you know? Did you & Gary speak about them or have you investigated into them as well? because Gary can really use your data to show the investigations findings. After all, Gary is the principal investigator to this case of Hoagland and the faces of Mars. he should see what you have to say or show to help him prove they not exist therefore meaning not real. Gary stated he was taught by Hoagland, & what that taught him was anyone can deny or nay say or not wish to look at something with seriousness. To determine the truth or veracity of this something, will be to investigate to reach that conclusion scientifically! What Gary shown & what I can easily see by Gary's evidences showing Hoagland's own words even, that Hoagland underestimated Gary seriously. Hoagland should not have encouraged investigation into them, nor encourage Gary to seek out the producers of the video these secret intelligence images were seen in. Gary is correct in needing an investigation into them. many people are watching to see how this all unfolds, yet many stay silent because this flips their realities upside down in things they were taught by Hoagland, & Bara being Hoagland's side kick. So not surprising to see Bara & Gary have butted heads. My bet is on Gary. if he is correct & he fulfills this investigation? he is going to be famous & causing many to feel & look shamed. I will not be one of them people. I want to help him because I want the truth also & I certainly want to see & know about those secret images that do exist, as I see them myself in gary's evidences & also watching where he led me to se for myself, that they do in fact, exist. They are there!
Now your other part of your statement suggesting they were used as set dressing? Yes so what is your point? I do not understand your words. I can see easily they were used as set dressing. But why destroy someones life, over set dressing that is not real nor exist? Why the silence by Hoagland to Gary & to all the world regarding this? Instead Hoagland has publicly smeared & slandered Gary in public on more than one occasion about this, & yet still not even answering any of the issues which is raised & again, many are watching to see what unfolds & how.
If Gary is part of some grand acclamation program, maybe Mike Bara also knows about it & is angry at Gary for being the one to have found it first? Certainly they all knew each other, & therefore motive applied. Especially when Hoagland avoids this case like the plague? Something is wrong here. I am surprised you not see it. But I will certainly like to see your investigation data showing they were only dressing for the set & explain how they not exist. How can you say this as fact? I SEE them clear as day! Seems Gary is right there again, this represents the dawn of a new day. Which will be if he is able to finish his investigations without threats & being hampered because so many fear controversy, yet want to be a public figure or public spectacle of authority of these subjects. Where Mike Bara is also a spectacle who seems to have messed with someone he should not have in this work. gary is not afraid & encourages the confrontation to not allow them to get away with this, nor to get away with allowing him or not to do his own work in this field as if they are his authority to decide Gary's fate in this work? Again, I stand with Mad Martian here in this, as well as you all should.
I really look forward to your reply Expat or anyone else, that has information or proof to share these images not exist? have you publicly spoken with Hoagland or Bara about this case to show us veracity in your claims that they not exist? If not? Then how can you make believe what you say is real? Or in some strange way are you helping this cover up continue? If you cannot show any data to back up your claims, how can I or anyone take as solid truth your words as being facts? When it is only assumed perceptions of reality how you wish to continue thinking reality is? Please reply to me or contact Gary to show him your investigation findings of these images to help close this case for him? No one should have to deal with this as we all can easily see Hoagland is at fault here in what Gary is today... The MAD MARTIAN!
Gary also is not giving up. Many silently stand with him. many have not made Hoagland comfortable in too many places because of his whistle blowing about Hoagland & these faces of Mars I for one, want the truth of also. he fights for me, as well as us all! I respect that & I respect him for his aggressive quest. No one should have this weight on their shoulders alone. Too bad you cannot see that also, nor really care, but that is OK with Gary I am sure. He seemingly fights regardless what anyone says or thinks without investigative evidence to back up negative claims, or even positive ones. We need this type of honesty in this field of Mars research. The government has been lying to us all, all along with what is really on Mars, & Gary will be a true hero if he wins. Or when he wins rather. A best seller book will be the smallest exciting thing to occur with bringing forth that information. Plus spreading the word even further than this fight of his has allowed him or he took advantage of to use so far.
Gary has started his book, interestingly & fittingly titled he says, CONSPIRACY OF RICHARD HOAGLAND AND THE FACES OF MARS. I for one am also going to buy his book & write an article for this & his case in my magazine that is also known. I see potential here & this controversy is indeed such! Worthy of news & investigation. I am waiting for Gary to bring forth what I need to see from him to make this case explode in far more ways than he has used it to become so far. I can easily see Gary is also waiting for that something. it has me excited. This is not a random same old boring case files of UFO's. This is something big which can & will change the world if proven! Thank you for your time & allowing my message posts. I look forward to reading more of your stuffs here at this blog.
Anon: I've allowed all your verbose comments but I won't be drawn into this fight. If you want to know what I've posted on this before, google..
leggiere site:http://www.dorkmission.blogspot.com
What I mean by "set dressing" is that these images were created by the design team for that specific TV show, just to decorate the set. They do not represent anything real on Mars. Therefore, Gary is never going to get Hoagland to come up with the originals. I imagine the artwork went in the recycle bin 10 minutes after the show came off the air.
Hoagland's feud with Gary is a by product of the whole conspiracy mind set. A world where anything can be a secret signal of anything else is likely to yield some unusual (and ironic) results. Hoagie pushed conspiracy fantasy and it came back and bit him.
I agree that Gary has some legit complaints about how he was treated by Hoagland and his lady Robin. The emails he posted online were also an interesting look into the money side of the woo business. They paint a picture of a guy who is mostly concerned with money, and is willing to stab his friends in the back to get it. Sounds like Hoagie to me.
This Anomymous sounds too much like a suspiciously restrained version of Gary himself. Whatever might be the case, the problem is that such personalities tend to look for constant drama or tensions, close supporters and evil opponents, explosive battles and grand tales of woe and deceit. It's that loop they end up craving and recreating, as if their life depends on it. Sadly the Internet provides infinite space to start over and over.
I was thinking the same, Dee.
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