Sunday, August 19, 2012

The planes: J'accuse!

        According to James Concannon's log, on 11th May 2011 at 03:00 Richard Hoagland wrote:
"The planes were NOT "hijacked commercial flights"; they were COPIES of those planes ... equipped with a "few extra frills.""

        All rise! This blog-court is now in session, Justice Expat presiding. Richard C. Hoagland, you are accused of grandstanding a tragic event in order to draw attention to yourself and your outrageously callous and inaccurate ideas. Please face your accusers:

FLIGHT UA175
Captain Victor J. Saracini, 51, Lower Makefield Township, Pa
First Officer Michael Horrocks, 38, Glen Mills, Pa

Attendants
Robert Fangman, 33, Claymont, Del.
Amy Jarret, 28, North Smithfield, R.I.
Amy King, 29, Stafford Springs, Conn.
Kathryn LaBorie
Alfred Marchand, 44, Alamogordo, N.M.
Michael Tarrou, 38, Stafford Springs, Conn.
Alicia N. Titus, 28, San Francisco

Passengers
Alona Avraham, 30, Ashdod, Israel
Garnet ''Ace'' Bailey, 53, Lynnfield, Mass., pro hockey scouting director, Los Angeles Kings
Mark Bavis, 31, West Newton, Mass., pro hockey scout, Los Angeles Kings
Graham Berkeley, 37, Wellesley, Mass.
Touri Bolourchi, 69, Beverly Hills, Calif.
Klaus Bothe, 31, chief of development, BCT Technology AG (Germany)
Daniel Brandhorst, 42, Los Angeles, Calif., lawyer, PricewaterhouseCoopers
David Brandhorst, 3, Los Angeles, Calif.
John Cahill, 56, Wellesley, Mass., senior executive, Xerox
Christoffer Carstanjen, 33, Turner Falls, Mass., computer research specialist, University of Massachusetts
John ''Jay'' Corcoran, 44, Norwell, Mass., merchant marine
Gloria de Barrera, 49, El Salvador, exporter
Dorothy Dearaujo, 82, Long Beach, Calif.
Lisa Frost, 22, Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif., sales and marketing associate REMAINS FOUND
Ronald Gamboa, 33, Los Angeles, Calif., store manager, The Gap
Lynn Goodchild, 25, Attleboro, Mass., Putnam Investments
Francis Grogan, 76, Easton, Mass., priest, Holy Cross Church
Carl Hammond, 37, Boston, Mass.
Christine Hanson, 3, Groton, Mass.
Peter Hanson, 32, Groton, Mass., software salesman REMAINS FOUND
Susan Hanson, 35, Groton, Mass., student
Gerald F. Hardacre, 62, Carlsbad, Calif.
Eric Hartono, 20, Boston, Mass.
James E. Hayden, 47, Westford, Mass., chief financial officer, Netegrity Inc.
Herbert Homer, 48, Milford, Mass., corporate executive, Raytheon Co.
Robert Jalbert, 61, Swampscott, Mass., salesman
Ralph Kershaw, 52, Manchester-by-the-Sea, Mass., marine surveyor
Heinrich Kimmig, 43, chairman, BCT Technology AG (Germany)
Brian Kinney, 29, Lowell, Mass., auditor, PricewaterhouseCoopers
Robert LeBlanc, 70, Lee, N.H., professor emeritus of geography, University of New Hampshire
Maclovio ''Joe'' Lopez Jr., 41, Norwalk, Calif.
Marianne MacFarlane, 34, Revere, Mass., customer service representative,
Louis Neil Mariani, 59, Derry, N.H.
Juliana Valentine McCourt, 4, New London, Conn.
Ruth McCourt, 45, New London, Conn., founder, Clifford Classique
Wolfgang Menzel, 60, personnel manager, BCT Technology AG (Germany)
Shawn Nassaney, 25, Pawtucket, R.I., American Power Conversion
Marie Pappalardo
Patrick Quigley, 40, Wellesley, Mass., partner, PricewaterhouseCoopers
Frederick Rimmele, Marblehead, Mass., physician
James M. Roux, 43, Portland, Maine, lawyer
Jesus Sanchez, 45, Hudson, Mass., off-duty flight attendant
Kathleen Shearer, Dover, N.H.
Robert Shearer, Dover, N.H.
Jane Simpkin, 35, Wayland, Mass.
Brian D. Sweeney, 38, Barnstable, Mass., business consultant
Timothy Ward, 38, San Diego, Calif., information technology project manager, Rubio's Restaurants
William Weems, 46, Marblehead, Mass., commercial producer



FLIGHT AA11

Captain John Ogonowski, 52, Dracut, Mass
First Officer Thomas McGuinness, 42, Portsmouth, N.H.

Attendants
Barbara Arestegui, 38, Marstons Mills, Mass.
Jeffrey Collman, 41, Novato, Calif.
Sara Low, 28, Batesville, Ark.
Karen Martin, 40, Danvers, Mass. REMAINS FOUND
Kathleen Nicosia
Betty Ong, 45, Andover, Mass.
Jean Roger, 24, Longmeadow, Mass.
Dianne Snyder, 42, Westport, Mass.
Madeline Sweeney, 35, Acton, Mass.

Passengers
Anna Williams Allison, 48, Stoneham, Mass., founder, A2 Software Solutions
David Angell, 54, Pasadena, Calif., executive producer, NBC's ''Frasier''
Lynn Angell, Pasadena, Calif.
Seima Aoyama
Myra Aronson, 52, Charlestown, Mass., press and analyst relations manager
Christine Barbuto, 32, Brookline, Mass., TJX Co.
Carolyn Beug, 48, Los Angeles, Calif.
Kelly Booms, 24, Boston, Mass., PricewaterhouseCoopers
Carol Bouchard, 43, Warwick, R.I., emergency room secretary, Kent County Hospital
Neilie Casey, 32, Wellesley, Mass., TJX Co.
Jeffrey Coombs, 42, Abington, Mass., security analyst, Compaq
Tara Creamer, 30, Worcester, Mass.
Thelma Cuccinello, 71, Wilmot, N.H.
Patrick Currivan
Brian Dale, 43, Warren, N.J.
David DiMeglio, Wakefield, Mass.
Donald Ditullio, 49, Peabody, Mass., Smith and Nephew
Albert Dominguez, 65, Sydney, Australia
Alex Filipov, 70, Concord, Mass., electrical engineer
Carol Flyzik, 40, Plaistow, N.H.
Paul Friedman
Karleton D.B. Fyfe, 31, Brookline, Mass., John Hancock
Peter Gay, 54, Tewksbury, Mass., plant manager, Raytheon Co.
Linda George, 27, Westboro, Mass., TJX Co.
Edmund Glazer, 41, Los Angeles, Calif., chief financial officer, MRV Communications
Lisa Fenn Gordenstein, 41, Needham, Mass., TJX Co.
Andrew Curry Green, 34, Los Angeles, Calif., director of business development, eLogic
Paige Farley Hackel, 46, Newton, Mass., spiritual counselor
Peter Hashem, 40, Tewksbury, Mass., salesman
Robert Hayes, 37, Amesbury, Mass., sales engineer, Netstal
Ted Hennessey, 35, Belmont, Mass., consultant
John Hofer
Cora Holland, 52, Sudbury, Mass., Sudbury Food Pantry at Our Lady of Fatima Church
Nicholas Humber, 60, Newton, Mass., owner, Brae Burn Management
John Jenkins, 45, Cambridge, Mass., corporate office services manager, Charles River Associates
Charles Jones, 48, Bedford, Mass., computer programmer
Robin Kaplan, 33, Westboro, Mass., TJX Co.
Barbara Keating, 72, Palm Springs, Calif.
David Kovalcin, 42, Hudson, N.H.
Judy Larocque, 50, Framingham, Mass., founder and CEO, Market Perspectives
N. Janis Lasden, 46, Peabody, Mass., General Electric
Daniel John Lee, 34, Los Angeles, Calif.
Daniel C. Lewin, 31, co-founder, Akamai Technologies
Susan MacKay, 44, Westford, Mass., TJX Co.
Chris Mello, 25, Boston, Mass., analyst
Jeff Mladenik, 43, Hinsdale, Ill., interim president, E-Logic
Antonio Montoya, 46, East Boston, Mass., housekeeping worker, Boston Harbor Hotel
Carlos Montoya
Laura Lee Morabito, 34, Framingham, Mass., national sales manager, Qantas Airways
Mildred Naiman, Andover, Mass.
Laurie Neira
Renee Newell, 37, Cranston, R.I., customer service agent, American Airlines
Jacqueline Norton, 60, Lubec, Maine, retiree
Robert Norton, 82, Lubec, Maine, retiree
Jane Orth, 49, Haverhill, Mass., retiree, Lucent Technologies
Thomas Pecorelli, 31, Los Angeles, Calif., cameraman, Fox Sports and E! Entertainment Television
Berry Berenson Perkins, 53, Wellfleet, Mass., actress and photographer
Sonia Morales Puopolo, 58, Dover, Mass., former ballet dancer
David Retik, Needham, Mass.
Philip Rosenzweig, Acton, Mass., executive, Sun Microsystems
Richard Ross, 58, Newton, Mass., Ross Group
Jessica Sachs, 22, Billerica, Mass., accountant, PricewaterhouseCoopers
Rahma Salie, 28, Boston, Mass.
Heather Smith, 30, Boston, Mass., Beacon Capital Partners
Douglas Stone, 54, Dover, N.H.
Xavier Suarez
Michael Theodoridis, 32, Boston, Mass., consultant
James Trentini, 65, Everett, Mass., retired teacher and assistant principal
Mary Trentini, 67, Everett, Mass., retired secretary
Pendyala Vamsikrishna, 30, Los Angeles, Calif., project manager for consulting firm, DTI
Mary Wahlstrom, 75, Kaysville, Utah
Kenneth Waldie, 46, Methuen, Mass., Raytheon Co.
John Wenckus, 46, Torrance, Calif., tax consultant
Candace Lee Williams, 20, Danbury, Conn., student
Christopher Zarba, 47, Hopkinton, Mass., software engineer, Concord Communications

58 comments:

strahlungsamt said...

So, if the planes were copies, where are the originals? Wasn't the "plane" that hit the Pentagon actually a missile? And weren't the passengers spirited off to Area 51?
Sound stupid? It is, except I read it somewhere and people actually believe it.

James Concannon said...

Also from my log:

RCH 14:30 may12
If the 911 hijacked planes we saw strike the Towers in MULTIPLE camera shots WERE "special substitutes" -- as objective (camera) evidence is growing to support -- then it stands to reason that ALL those passengers on the original commercial flights WERE ruthlessly murdered--

Just NOT ... by flying into buildings!

Part of a MUCH larger plot ... to create a suitable "diversion" from the extraordinary weapon that actually destroyed the WTC.

Given "who" we have substantive reason to believe the REAL enemy now is -- a Nazi "breakaway, spaceborn civilization" -- this would simply be "business as usual" for them ....

With Bin Ladin carefully (and willingly) set up to take "the fall."

No wonder "someone" had to get rid of him -- WITHOUT any more questions being asked!

James Concannon said...

He was asked how he would account for the fact that numerous pieces of human beings found in the towers were unquestionably identified as pieces of some of the passengers and staff of those flights (as noted in the lists). He chose not answer that question in any way.

jourget said...

Not to mention the phone calls from many of those same passengers (including Peter Hanson, who both made a call from Flight 175 and was recovered from the debris). What a staggering piece of work Hoagland is. Take his monumental arrogance and combine it with any headline-worthy news story, and you've got a patented Enterprise Mission "theory". It was inevitable that some 9/11 fantasy would appear eventually, but the difference between this and his various space fictions is the use of hundreds of actual dead humans to fuel the delusion. What a vulture.

Chris Lopes said...

I gather that the whole point of this diversion was so that the space Nazis could demonstrate to the elites on Earth their awesome space Nazi magic, without letting the rest of us in on the gag. Hoagland never explains why secrecy is even a concern to our space Nazi overlords (being able to make buildings vanish from the high orbit is being able to tell the locals to sit down and shut up), but Hoagland never let logic or decency get in the way of a good (or lame) story. Yes, he owes the victims (and their families) of 911 a very big apology for using their deaths to fill 3 hours of mind numbing stupidity. No, they will never get one.

Trekker said...

I see he's now using e-mails to Greg Ahrens to convey messages to the faithful...I wonder if his Facebook account has been blocked again. Lol!

Chris Lopes said...

Unless of course Greg is just blowing smoke to keep hope alive. Hoagland could have (even if HIS account were blocked) used his faithful sidekick Robin to convey any real message. That's how they did it in the past with C2C announcements and such. So I'm not sure why Greg gets to be the official spokesman here.

I suppose it's possible Hoagland isn't just hanging around and is actually working on a paper of sorts. Or it could be that Hoagland also wants to keep hope alive and is using Greg because he is deniable ("I" never said there would be a paper in a few days, GREG did!). I'm just not believing this constitutes an official announcement.

jourget said...

I don't know, I'm personally not seeing any indication that Hoagland's working on anything these days that won't make him some money. The hyperdimensional eclipse paper back in May served as a veneer over his cash drive for Egypt, so unless he's got an imminent astronomical event that involves a need for funds, there's not much for him to gain from posting another free article to his website. He's already pointed out that he doesn't think his fans deserve free "research".

On the other hand, maybe he's getting jealous that Mike's actually putting out a book and getting some more mileage out of Dark Mission. If that's the case, maybe he really is trying to finish his long-promised Heritage of Mars book. That would serve the dual purpose of both putting him back in the spotlight and allowing Robin to buy more essential oils.

Either way, it's rampant speculation. Who knows precisely what kind of world this guy lives in.

Trekker said...

Well, Greg is jumping up and down with excitement over the near certainty that Curiosity is going to see *BUILDINGS!* on its first excursion to Glenelg...though whether that's his own imagination at work or whether he's chanelling Hoagland is not clear!

Biological_Unit said...

numerous pieces of human beings found in the towers

Widely claimed but no pictures exist.

Chris Lopes said...

Trekker,
Those two options are not mutually exclusive. Hoagland did the setup for this nonsense months ago (then backtracked to "finding signs of past/present life"), so now the expectation among the faithful is buildings and such. Greg is just feeding off of the original "prediction", which Hoagland will forget he ever said.

jourget,
I agree that the book is a possibility (he's got to be doing something with all this time on his hands), but a free paper is less so. The only reason I can see him bothering with one is if he thinks it's the only way to stay relevant and remain a player in the pseudo-science game. The fear of not mattering any more might just be enough to get his attention.

expat said...

Bio_Unit what kind of pictures would you find convincing? A lumpy smear of pink on a piece of concrete? Of course you'd claim that was faked.

The pictures that experts find convincing in real life are matching RFLPs from electrophoretic gel runs. They just look like a series of dark bands. Do you have the expertise to interpret them?

James Concannon said...

Some additional points:

UA175 departed BOS at 08:14, runway 9. It impacted the South Tower at 09:03. When do you think there was time to substitute a COPY of this aircraft? Where did the substitution occur?

AA11 departed BOS at 07:59, runway 4R. It impacted the North Tower at 08:46. When do you think there was time to substitute a COPY of this aircraft? Where did the substitution occur?

John Hartling of Nashua Center ATC, and Dave Bottiglia of New York Center ATC, have both testified that AA11 and UA175 were tracked all the way from BOS to the twin towers. If you doubt that, what you are doubting is that ATC would be concerned about two airliners going off course, failing to respond to radio commands, and in one case turning off the transponder. Such a position is simply untenable.

Chris Lopes said...

To be honest, I never understood why Hoagland thought this nonsense needed duplicate planes. The HD weapon thing could just as easily have worked (since it doesn't really exist, you can make up your own rules on how it operates) without special planes involved. The planes just add another level of implausibility (as if space Nazis with death rays weren't bad enough) that is easily falsifiable.

Maybe he was looking for an additional level of pseudo-evidence and thought blurry pictures of planes "that don't look right" would give him that. Maybe his contempt for his audience is so great (and justified), that he thought he could throw anything at them and they'd buy it. Maybe he has such a lack of empathy that he really doesn't think of things like 911 as anything beyond just another chance to sell more BS.

Binaryspellbook said...

"Greg Ahrens is an outstanding researcher." - Richard C. Hoagland, when he delivered that excruciatingly awful Elenin tripe.

I guess Greg is one of his in-crowd. And by researcher, he means idiot who sits on google finding "anomalies" in NASA images.

Biological_Unit said...

Your test-tubes and bunsen burners are impressive!

Misti Parker said...

Greg Ahrens is one of Hoagland's several ghost profiles.

Hoagland consistently deflects suspicion away from Russia and her proxies, as does the US Government which seeks to appease Islam and avoid direct confrontation with Russia.

Russia has scalier weapons. There is no need to go hunting for Space NAZIS.

FlightSuit said...

Imagine the emotional torment it would cause a relative of a 9/11 victim if they believed that their loved one had been murdered by the US government or was simply "disappeared," and might still be alive somewhere, suffering in a secret government facility.

Misti Parker said...

As if everyone are all alive and well in some alternate universe, along with the crew of USS Eldridge.

Anonymous said...

"Scalier" weapons?? like Lizards and Snakes?? WTF? over....

Dale

Misti Parker said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAGTJErVNBU

Biological_Unit said...

Imagine the emotional torment it would cause a relative of a 9/11 victim

Everyone says that 911 was like a Movie.
You're fancy debunkers, use your imagination...

Misti Parker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Misti Parker said...

Hoagland played an integral part in the Heaven's Gate mass suicide, by going on Coast with Art Bell, and blathering about how Comet Hale-Bopp had a "companion," Spacecraft or Spaceship, I forget which. The link to Art Bell's old website is still linked on the Heaven's Gate website that is still up and running.

Hoagland remains remorseless and recalcitrant by persisting in promoting that Ellen and YU55 are under intelligent control.

Cantra said...

Mike has been quiet.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/954/barafb.jpg

astroguy said...

Yeah, I saw you baiting him. :)

I've contacted Karl Mamer and I'm going to be on the Conspiracy Skeptic podcast to talk about this whole thing. I told Karl that I'd prefer to give Mike a bit more time to respond, but I could record with him on Sunday.

Given the nature of his podcast, I'm going to try to focus on the whole conspiracy mindset of secret government interception labs for all NASA images, but I think an overview of the whole thing as a narrative will be the way I tell it.

Binaryspellbook said...

Cantra,

You are going to get banned lass. I saw the latest ziggy post you replied to.

Jamie.

Chris Lopes said...

The problem for Mike is that he specifically asked about non-NASA images of the region in question, which committed him to accepting such images as legitimate. Now that such images have been provided (and no structure can be seen in them), he either has to go back on what he said or do some more image "enhancing" until you can sorta, maybe, kinda, see something that could just be a structure. Hoagland's "everything is a conspiracy" approach avoids all this unnecessary looking at evidence stuff.

Speaking of Hoagland, maybe what's taking Bara so long is getting an explanation of all this from the old fraud. If he really depended on Hoagland to verify the image, he's even dumber than....well you know. You'd think a guy who worked with Hoagland for so long would know better than to trust either his judgement or his integrity. Perhaps this will be a lesson for him.

Cantra said...

Hi Astro,

I'm betting we will get no more than he has offered before in his defence. Namely, bugger all except SHILL, and it's too stupid to even reply to. I'm still prodding though, and will continue until he bans me.

Cantra.

Esteban Navarro said...

Ken Johnston:
OK MIKE,

I allowed Pete Oakley (who said that he was a friend of yours on facebook) to befriend me. He was skeptical of the artifacts on the Moon (and I presume on Mars as well). So when he asked me what I thought, here is my response to him on FB:

Pete,

Back in 1995 when I first started looking at the pictures that I had kept in a locked safe for years it was hard to believe what I was seeing too. Up until I meet Richard Hoaglend and Jay Weigner the only unusual structures that I had seen were those on the back side of the moon inside the crater.

With their help and the use of a 'loop' (magnifying glass) I could see what they were looking at. One has to understand that these objects were being photographed from lunar orbit. At first I didn't believe they could possibly be 'man' made but after discussing some of them with some geologist friends, the conclusion was that they were not natural formations.

More recently I have found that researchers such as Zecharaia Sitchin and Michael Tellinger have translated ancient clay tablets that identify the possible creators of the ziguraths and possible domes.

There is so much history about humanity that has been kept from the masses that it is no wonder why we are skeptical of any thing out of the ordinary.

I can only suggest that you keep researching with an open mind and start questioning what the government organizations tell you.

AS it says in the Bible, "Test all things, hold fast that which is true". And before you start thinking that I am a Bible Thump-er, let me state that there is a lot in the Bible that is questionable also when you consider how it was put together and how much was left out.

For me, I have seen enough, read enough and talked with enough people who were in positions to know that I have no more doubts that there are some UN-natural architectural structures on the Moon and Mars.

Just step back and ask yourself if "Bookings" was right about the effect of discovering evidence of other sentient beings on Earth or any of the surrounding planets, would have on the 'Powers that be'. Governments, scientist and religion-est.

NOW, ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT YOURSELF.

How did you wind up with a picture of yourself wearing a space suit?

Now all I need to do is wait to hear what he says in response.

Ken Johnston


Mike Bara : Ken, he's just one of "them." He'll probably keep harrassing you until you defreind him.

Chris Lopes said...

What does having a picture of yourself wearing a space suit (I'd love to have one of myself in one) matter in this entire conversation?

Binaryspellbook said...

Dear Mr Hoagland,

I have given you enough time to respond, and certainly enough time to at least tell us what is going on. Not via Greg Ahrens. You stole money from me, and I want it back. You promised a paper from Egypt. That didn't happen. You then said I will write a paper anyway on the Venus transit. That didn't happen. You tell me that science doesn't happen overnight, I will grant you that. But you also said you were working around the clock. Since when ? - MAY, and still no paper, and not a peep out of you on facebook. You told me that after I had seen the results and still wanted my donation returned that would be arranged. Well, that's quite convenient isn't it. No paper, so no refund. All while I struggle to feed my children.

It's simply not good enough. Either produce a paper or give me my money back. I'm sick of scam artists, and I do believe you fleeced me and my children out of money we could not afford. Yes it was my choice to donate. But I donated in good faith. And you stole from me like a thief in the night. I will cc this email, and bcc it to several people. Respond or it goes public. VERY PUBLIC. Are the IRS aware of how many "donations" you have acquired ?

Jamie.

Anonymous said...

I've not been on this blog for a while and there's stuff to catch up on, but unless this Jamie was trying to prove a point about Hoagland, I'm not really sure what he was after - a "paper" of zero real science, or some "astonishing results" to reinforce what Hoagie has the faithful donators already believing?... Jamie chose to donate (if he's not been given the refund he asked for, that's a valid issue and separate issue than what he was after in the first place) - but why donate? Did he value "humanity changing, history defining science" over feeding his children like he says he is trying to do? It sounds to me like Jamie and every other person who gave money got what they deserve for entertaining such nonsense, and have no real grounds to complain about it. (IMO)

astroguy said...

Anyone planning on calling in to American Freedom Radio (http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/ , 218-339-8525) tonight when Bara's on? 7-9PM PDT, August 23 (Thursday).

Chris Lopes said...

Anon,
I think the point is to provide a warning to the casual visitor to Hoagie's FB page that he isn't actually doing any research and that sending him money for such is a waste of time. After all, not everyone who visits his FB page is a true believer. Some (I'd say most) are just folks who heard this guy on the radio and wanted to see what he was all about. They aren't aware of Hoagland's history of lies and deception and don't know that when he talks about future papers, he's mostly blowing smoke up their ass. They actually think (because he's C2C's "science advisor") he's legit. So pointing out his past failures and the con that was his Egyptian trip, is just a way to warn off those who aren't aware of who and what Hoagland really is.

James Concannon said...

I couldn't make the Freedom Radio date, alas. Anyone got a report? What was the SNI (STUNNING New Information)?

astroguy said...

Have you seen Mike's blog? Five parts. I've started picking it apart. I also have the full audio in a 55Mb file without commercials if you want.

Biological_Unit said...

I think the Twin Towers had a very SMALL Seismic Signal.
After being NUKED, there was nothing to strike the ground!

just a thought. no big woop.

jourget said...

Yes, I'm trying to wade through it. I think you rattled his cage a bit, Stuart. For a man who earlier said he wouldn't bother to respond, this is quite a display.

One of my favorite-ever claims of Mike's is near the end of Part 5. There's "no such thing" as pareidolia, apparently. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go running after that leprechaun with the pot of gold I just saw in the clouds. Thanks Mike!

strahlungsamt said...

I see Hoagie and Mike have the same aesthetics in web design. :)

Chris Lopes said...

jourget,
I agree that something has him spooked. Whether it's genuine concern over his own credibility, or some (intentionally?) really bad advice from a former space science museum curator, it's hard to say. The smart move would have been to pretend that Dr. Robbins and his questions don't exist, but no one ever accused Bara of being smart.

astroguy said...

Reality never got in Mike's way. The pareidolia doesn't exist was a nice kicker, I agree. And apparently Hoagie told him to ignore me.

Chris Lopes said...

I tried working my way through Mike's posts but I couldn't get beyond the petulant teenager tone of the thing. It's amazing that he doesn't see how stupid it makes him look to any objective observer. Amazing and down right funny.

Mike's so busy trying to be the cool kid in school that he doesn't notice how everyone is laughing at him. Maybe he figures if he insults Dr. Robbins enough, the good doctor will just run away crying. The idea that insults coming from someone you don't have any respect for don't mean much to real adults never occurs to Mike. Then again, you'd have to be a real adult to understand such things. It's obvious that label does not apply to Bara.

P.S. RIP Neil Armstrong.

astroguy said...

I'm writing two more posts on the subject. The next one is going to be on dynamic range and shadows, and the final is going to be on language, pareidolia, and conspiracy. Then I'm going to try to bow out. I just finished writing a draft of the next-next one, and here's the last section at the moment:


Clearly, [the conspiracy] was always the most likely and it is primarily what he's gone with. Which really gets me back to why we're going through this whole thing, anyway?

I cannot read minds, though I often wish I could, but my guess is that Mike feels the need to defend this considering that he’s put so much effort into it and made it a centerpiece of his book due out in October. It also fits entirely within the worldview that he sells (literally).

I've continued on with this in part because I'm very stubborn, but also because I've been learning and teaching as I've been going. In terms of the former, I've learned how to obtain and process the SELENE images, how to be more precise, how to create videos, and techniques to bolster my claims. That will help me not just in this kind of education and public outreach work, but also in my career. For example, I'm headed to a conference in Flagstaff, AZ (USA) next month on cratering and I'll be giving two presentations. My work is going to be challenged. If I can't defend it, then it falls and I'm back to square one.

In terms of the latter, I've tried to gear each blog post on this not just towards the boring "debunking" stuff, but to illustrate to everyone who's reading how to do their own investigations into this stuff and NOT to take my word for things, and also about how certain things are done and stuff works. For example, I've gone into great depth now in a few posts AND two podcasts on image processing and about images in general, such as dynamic range, noise, geometric correction, and how some basic filters work. In an age where nearly everyone who has internet (and so is reading this) has a digital camera, this is useful information to have.

But, by this point, I think the impasse is more obvious than ever. I acknowledge that some of Mike's ideas are possible (i.e., the poorly stored print idea), but unlikely. Mike has not admitted to being wrong even when he's contradicted himself, and pretty much every argument I've made that he hasn't attempted to show is wrong has been relegated to a conspiracy. Nothing I say is going to change his mind on that, though that was pretty much known from the beginning.

I think it is probably time for a graceful exit on this issue by both parties. Mike's explained his position, I've explained mine, and you, the reader, are encouraged to do your own investigation and make up your own mind. If you decide the conspiracy is accurate, more power to you because you've made The Choice, go buy Mike's books, spend money to hear him talk, and have fun.

strahlungsamt said...

I also tried to read his rebuttal and gave up before the end of part 1. All I see is a sad sad man who's obviously invested a lot of time and money (relative to the size of his bank account which is probably not very much) into a very very bad investment. It really sounds like he can't afford not to profit from Ancient Aliens on the Moon.
I'm not a Photoshop expert but when I saw what he did to "Dr." Stewart's pictures, I wanted to take the image below and put his face on it. So sad, really. I felt like a piece of humanity died while reading that article. Makes me wonder why humans still live on this planet.

http://www.mundosimpson.com.ar/imagenes/technical/1f03.jpg

Trekker said...

He couldn't even post a tribute to Neil Armstrong without taking a nasty dig at him: "a true American hero who wanted to tell the truth but was loyal to his oath".

FlightSuit said...

I wonder how long it will take him to delete this post from his Facebook wall?

http://tinyurl.com/98js66t

astroguy said...

Yeah, Bara's Part 1 is pretty much completely an effort to get under my skin. Or at least that's how I saw it. Part 4 is where he says that I got the ziggy's location wrong ... and just shows that he's wrong.

@FlightSuit - 2 hrs later, it's still up.

FlightSuit said...

I wonder if the following conversation will go anywhere?

http://tinyurl.com/93yelk5

Anonymous said...

Neil Armstrong -the first man to walk on the moon and witness giant spaceships around huge glass domes- dies, in the magical year of 2012, just as Curiosity is about to find life on Mars (or not. We don't make predictions remember) - hmmm, co-incidence??....... (he was 82 and anyone whose read DM will know 82 is really code for hyper dimensional goings on).

Or perhaps those super secret space peoples had him whacked to send a massage to the re-incarnated Egyptian god whose gonna be humanity's saviour: do not let NASA (the good nasa, not the bad one who hides all the stuff) find or reveal anything of interest from Curiosity's mission, or else........

With a bit of luck, Dick will get 3 hours on coast to exploit this and remind us to not forget about him and his insightful genius - sorry, I mean explain to us what is REALLY going on behind the scenes here................

stay tuned!!

Binaryspellbook said...

I feel a trip to the vomitarium coming on. Hoagland and Bara will not pass up the opportunity to profit from the death of Neil Armstrong. These vile despicable slug_men will stoop so
low.

Chris Lopes said...

I found this on the C2C site. Either that guy stole from Hoagland and Bara (mostly Hoagland) or it was the other way around. Either way, it just goes to show that the "alternative research" community is an incestuous lot.

FlightSuit said...

I finally made the time to have a look at Bara's five part tirade on his blog. I can't believe he managed to misspell the word "rebutting" in the titles of all five parts!

And nobody's been kind enough to bring this spelling error to his attention!

So much comic gold.

Trekker said...

Mike is now claiming he made 'two minor errors' in The Choice. Lol! I wonder if he's ever read this? http://dorkmission.blogspot.ca/2010/10/point-by-point-critique-of-mike-baras.html

Cantra said...

I got banned from Mike's main page for the heinous crime of being a real engineer, and the even more heinous crime of actually understanding mathematics.

He forgot to ban me for now, from his "author" page.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2079/baramsg3.jpg

Binaryspellbook said...

Sometimes an acronym really doesn't cut it Cantra. Therefore please allow me to say, "laughing my fucking arse off."

Prepare for another whack of the banstick. But you did good lass. Real good. And you know me well enough to know that the above wasn't patronising.

What the heck with the posters. So funny. Brilliant.

Jamie

strahlungsamt said...

Cantra,

Just doing my good deed for the day.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9241/mikebaraspectrum.jpg

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3343/mikebarafb2.jpg

Binaryspellbook said...

to RCH
Hiya Richard,

Any comments on the attachment ?
Are the IRS aware of your "fund" ?

Will you try to have me and the others who are circulating this poster all over the web committed to a loony bin.
Just like "Dr" Falkov did with Gary the mad martian. I put "Dr" in quotes, because she isn't a real doctor. She describes
herself as having taken "an accelerated couse." But didn't recommend it to anyone. I wonder why ?
I smell a diploma mill here Dick. Nobody who has a bona fide Ph.D does an "accelerated course." What utter hogwash.
You ARE familiar with hogwash Dick. I'm sure you are since that embarrassing book Dark Mission is full of it.

NASA, nazis, magicians and masons. What poppycock. Your time is up Hoaxland. Your money scamming shenannigans
are now under the microscope. Ideal rocket equation anyone ? - what a complete dogs arse you made of that Dickie boy.
What a joke. Coming from a man I have heard describe himself as, a scientist, an astronmer and a physicist. What a lying piece of
of work you are Hoagland. A man with no conscience nor morals. A con artist shite talking blabbermouth fool.

But Hey, DICK. - Take me to court for libel or whatever your tiny brain can come up with. I'll rip your preposterous mathematics
apart in public and show you for the lying piece of scum you are. Obama as Horus, Elenin as a spacecraft, the "probability" calculations.
Oh my how the educated laughed our arses off at you. God what a lying piece of crap you are Hoagland. I love the way Dolan and Dr Farrell have
ditched you like a bad smell. That made my year.

Give the people their money back you thief. Or at least produce the "paper" you have promised them since MAY !!!!!
But be aware Dickie boy, that there are a plethora of real engineers waiting to rip it to shreds. Give us controls, data, and everything
that real science demands. Then sit back and try to take apart the critics. I doubt you can, or will even attempt to. Since you
are a liar and a fraudulent snake oil salesman.

Kindest Regards
DJE.