I believe it was an editor of the Rational Wikipedia who formulated the theory that, in internet argument, the first person to adduce quantum theory in support of his position automatically loses.
If that's the case, and I find the idea attractive, Robert Morningstar is a multiple loser. Here he is, on the Book of Faeces... er, sorry, Faces, introducing a ball game he's devised together with some New York City pals.
"Thunderball training. unifies [sic] the metaphysical principles of Taoism and Tai Chi Ch'uan with Einstein's Relativity Theory and Quantum Mechanics to produce novel ways of moving through curved space-time.This was puff for a short (and very amateur) video he made showing off the Thunderball game. I suppose it's only fair to show this vid to any readers who might be interested--so here it is. I leave it to the enthusiasts to decide what this has to do with self-defense.
The ancient wisdom of Taoism and Tai Chi principles are applied and fused with Relativity and Quantum Theory into a dynamic and exhilarating "Hyperdimensional Sport" practiced for self-development and self-defense."
Double frisbee
Robert AM* is quite a dexterous fellow. He plays double frisbee with more skill than I can bring to the single variety, and it looks as though Thunderball, with its requirement to pay attention to multiple flying objects simultaneously, would be beyond me. So there's that.
But... quantum mechanics???? I asked for some clarification because I didn't believe that part, and I didn't believe AM* had any true understanding of the term. His reply only served to reinforce my beliefs:
"For your information, the main reason that my students and I can achieve such amazing feats of prestidigitation is our application of the Schrodinger Wave Equations and treating Einstein's idea of curved space-time as established reality in our Thunderball play to avoid "cosmic collisions," an idea that is too deep for a "Flatlander" like you to comprehend."He also provided a link to a .pdf about the Dirac equation, which of course is as spectacularly irrelevant to the question as is quantum theory. So far as I can determine, AM*'s pretentious claims are to physics what psychobabble is to genuine psychology. You might say they're a load of balls.
JC
13 comments:
I've studied T'ai Chi Ch'uan for more years than I care to mention, and only on rare occasion have I been privileged to witness any mystical demonstration. However, I have subsequently come to understand some of those techniques, and find them to be simply subtle, yet powerful applications of classical mechanical physics.
Here is a more obvious example @1:08
"For your information, the main reason that my students and I can achieve such amazing feats of prestidigitation is our application of the Schrodinger Wave Equations and treating Einstein's idea of curved space-time as established reality in our Thunderball play to avoid "cosmic collisions," an idea that is too deep for a "Flatlander" like you to comprehend."
Spoken like a chap anxious to test out his "self-defense system" under field conditions.
So far as I can determine, AM*'s pretentious claims are to physics what psychobabble is to genuine psychology.
There is a very simple way for Mr. Morningstar to prove that Thunderball is a system of self-defense worthy of serious consideration: he can enter himself (or one of his students) in the UFC.
If he/his student wins two-thirds of his matches, then we'll know he has something.
WS
I've studied T'ai Chi Ch'uan for more years than I care to mention, and only on rare occasion have I been privileged to witness any mystical demonstration.
Were there any T'ai Chi Ch'uan precepts in evidence in the Morningstar video?
That might sound like an objective means of evaluation, WS, but unfortunately, prohibitive sporting rules of the UFC do not necessarily accommodate the most effective martial techniques. In many ways, that makes the sport more dangerous than an actual street fight, as some combatants would not be permitted to properly defend themselves in the style that of which they have trained. A more empirical test, would be a classical Lei Tai tournament.
Peter Ralston
If this video:Robert Morningstar's THUNDERBALL POV1, is the one referenced, then the short answer is that I don't personally find any particular T'ai Chi Ch'uan precepts evidenced.
Robert Morningstar may only be joking, however, that being said, I don't 'see' any technique displayed in Cheuk Fung's demonstration, above, either; only the results of the application of the subtle technique.
Now to really start nit picking, the term, T'ai Chi Ch'uan, was coined by a poet who reported on a first hand observation of a competition between Yang, Lu-Chan, and a worthy opponent, who Yang, defeated. The term means, "Supreme Ultimate Fist". Technically, the term only pertains to Yang's original art, which he only taught to his son, Yang, Ban-Hou, in Kuan Ping Province, who only taught it to Wang Jiao-Yu, who had only two students, Kuo Lien Ying and Wang Chih Chien. Chiang, Yun-Chung, is the only student to have studied with each of those two. He taught more than five thousand students.
I sincerely doubt that Robert Morningstar studied Kuan Ping Yang style, but the concepts are not totally unique to that style. You find them in Hsing-I, Ba-Gua, I-Ch'uan, and at the highest levels in other styles, not commonly considered to be 'internal'.
Bruce Lee accepted a challenge from Wong, Jack-Man, defeating him in about fifteen seconds. Afterwards, Lee said that fight took to long, so he developed techniques and tactics, based upon Western boxing and fencing. He proved it to be significantly more efficient at delivering force, than classical Gung-fu.
Bruce Lee devised a one inch punch and a six inch punch. His Straight Lead, can be delivered as a six foot punch, if one steps before pivoting, which has the range of a front kick.
Manny Pacquiao, is a student of Teri Tom, who was number one student of Bruce Lee's longest time student, Ted Wong. Pacquiao tends to drop his guard and gets hit a lot more than he ought to, but when he gets a solid shot at his opponent, you can obviously see they encounter significantly more force then from any other boxer.
Maybe the moderator would care to arrange a match between Robert Morningstar and Teri Tom?
Someone has to say it: in terms of any movement that can be made by a human body, relativity and quantum mechanics do not differ detectably from classical mechanics. This is why ballet, martial arts, athletics and related disciplines could reach a high state of development without the knowledge of those sciences - if it were otherwise, it would have been obvious that something was wrong. In that part of what he says, if not elsewhere, he is talking nonsense.
As of yet, "we can (only) satisfy ourselves with anecdotal evidence (of) the beneficial contributions to good health, and youthful energy, which results from the practice of T'ai Chi Ch'uan."
If this video:Robert Morningstar's THUNDERBALL POV1, is the one referenced, then the short answer is that I don't personally find any particular T'ai Chi Ch'uan precepts evidenced.
I see. Well, thank you for taking the time to look at it, anyway. And thank you for posting the clip of Cheuk Fung's demonstration; I had a lot of fun watching that.
(I am always struck by how the best martial arts masters always seem to smile and laugh a lot.)
WS
Maybe the moderator would care to arrange a match between Robert Morningstar and Teri Tom?
Based on what I have seen to date, something tells me that Thunderball is not yet a fully-developed martial arts system.
Rather than an actual sparring match from which RM could, conceivably, emerge the worse for wear, a video with him demonstrating a few Thunderball counters for kicks, punches, and some basic grabs might be both safer for him and more useful for any outsiders interested in evaluating what he has to offer.
WS
Thunderball is just an exercise. It's actually quite common for T'ai Chi teachers who never were taught applications, to say that fighting is beneath them. Robert Morningstar credits himself as a martial arts expert. Let the chips fall where they may.
Here, Robert Morningstar, demonstrates a precarious stance from the watered down Pe-king, version, of Yang T'ai Chi Ch'uan, which Han, national, Yang, Ban-Hou, taught to the murderous, occupying, Manchu Royal Guard.
Notice how his weight is balanced towards the forward foot, thereby making him prone to being pulled off balance. Also, his rear heel is raised off the ground, which T'ai Chi only does slightly, when turning the entire body to face another direction. While it's true that Bruce Lee would raise the rear heel to propel the entire body forward in punching, like a sprinter off the starting block, Morningstar is going nowhere, fast.
The original T'ai Chi of Yang, Lu-Chan, as created in Kuan Ping, maintains a more nearly centered stance, as found in Hsing-I.
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