Sunday, June 24, 2012

Jamie Ecosse wants his money back

        Today's bloggery comes courtesy of the enterprising Jamie Ecosse—a nom de e-plume with a hidden clue as to the writer's real identity. As a further clue, I may add that Ecosse comes "from the same stable" as the estimable Irene Gardner, our heroine because of her very successful Hoagland bamboozle last month.

        Here's how this game was played:
==============================================
From: Jamie Ecosse
To: enterprisemission2001@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: Venus transit
Dear Mr Hoagland,

I donated what I could ill afford towards the planned trip to Egypt for the Venus transit HD measurements.
Since the trip never took place and no data was forthcoming I would like my money back.
Would you be so kind as to indicate how this will happen. Do you need me to set up a paypal account or something similar ?

Regards
Jamie

===============================================
From: enterprisemission2001@yahoo.com
To: Jamie Ecosse

Jamie,
Science does not happen overnight.

I have been working (literally) around the clock, for weeks, preparing a substantive Report on our first Eclipse results for a new post on Enterprise; the Venus Transit data -- which WAS acquired successfully two weeks after the Eclipse, just not in Egypt -- will follow after that.

The Egypt trip is still being planned, to measure the torsion physics of the Pyramids; merely the date has been moved back (now, to closer to the December, 2012, Winter Solstice Galactic Alignment) -- as I continue gathering the financial support to make that happen ....

After you have SEEN the spectacular results of what we recorded from both the Eclipse and the Transit, if you still want your donation returned, that will be arranged.

I just want you to realize that ANYTHING worthwhile in science, certainly something this "paradigm busting," takes time -- time to properly analyze and even begin to understand, let alone time to prepare the first results for publication.

I look forward to your reaction to what you helped us find ....

RCH
===============================================
        Holy shit! He intends to keep begging for the next FIVE MONTHS!

        Thanks for this, Jamie, and if Hoagland's "report" ever appears I sincerely hope you'll give him the reaction he's so looking forward to.

        Meanwhile, the Science Adviser himself is posted to appear on Coast-to-Coast AM tomorrow night, telling us about anti-gravity spaceships and free energy generators (also known as "bullshit science".) Since I recently wrote that C2C had apparently banned him from begging on the air, I fear I may be about to eat my words. Since it's barbecue season, I'll have some guacamole to help them down. Actually, in a few minutes I intend to have some guac with or without words. Cheers.

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Science does not happen overnight."

The donation was requested and made for a trip which didn't happen. Science has nothing to do with entitlement to a refund.

Trekker said...

Well, the Annular Eclipse data appeared in a couple of days...why does he need weeks/months to type up the Transit data?

FlightSuit said...

Oh Lordy, this just gets better and better. When will Hoagland start having tent revivals and performing hyperdimensional faith healings?

Esteban Navarro said...

Poor grandfather of cosmic mysteries... He begins to pity me.I mean it ... You know what? I'm gonna swallow my pity with guacamole too ..washed down with a Berberana wine raised in American oak barrels ... Yum, yum! Thanks for the idea, Expat!;)

Flightsuit,I posted once this in Hoagies ´FB:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprQGmZ3Imw Did not last three minutes...BTW What made you stop being a believer, if i can ask, ?

FlightSuit said...

Esteban, I would say the biggest factor in me graduating from believer to skeptic was a guy in a Web forum I belong to who took the time to patiently address each and every one of my assertions about Hoagland in a way that provided me with compelling proof that Hoagland had gotten a lot of things wrong.

Once I saw and understood how my own thought processes and biases had predisposed me toward believing in Hoagland, I recognized that the same dynamic was at work in a lot of my other beliefs. So this sparked my interest in the skeptic community in general.

Esteban Navarro said...

Aha ... thanks, FlightSuit, was curious. Anyway, we note that the seed of the search was in you already, because you listen carefully to your virtual partner and brought up reasoned conclusions: a stubborn & recalcitrant believer never would.


And forgive, once again my shitty English. "I start to feel sorry for him" I meant. Not me, it's Google translator. Do you know any better?;)

Chris Lopes said...

So the Egypt trip is still being planned, despite the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is in the middle of taking power over there? Either Hoagland is hopelessly politically uninformed, or he's a damn liar. Actually I'll go with option 3, he's both. The trip to Egypt is no more likely to happen in December (for a lot of reasons) than it is now.

I don't think anyone here believes he's spent the last few weeks doing anything (literally around the clock) beyond world class drinking. I know I don't expect a new paper on this topic anytime soon, if ever. Now that it's over, there is no profit in it for Hoagland to do some actual work.

That leads to the obvious answer to Trekker's question. Hoagland hasn't posted any new data on the transit because there isn't any. I doubt he made it beyond his living room, let alone Florida. BTW, notice how Hoagland doesn't mention where he took the transit readings, just where he didn't.

In other words, no one who gave him money for the trip will ever see a dime of it back. They won't see any of his work either, as there isn't any to show. Hoagland's reply to Jamie has proven Jamie's point. Well played sir, well played.

expat said...

Chris, Hoagland announced that he was Accutronning from the terrace of the High Finance restaurant atop Sandia Peak for the Venus transit (same site as for the eclipse "experiment".)

He said he'd have two stations running, one at either end of the terrace. As I remarked at the time, I hope he doesn't think that's some kind of "control," because it isn't.

jourget said...

Chris,

I'm sure you're quite right about his work output over the last few weeks, but of course he's counting on the fact that it's impossible to prove otherwise. His response to the refund request is actually pretty sly within the framework of his usual behavior. Setting a deadline for a potential payout AFTER the future publication of transit results allows Hoagland to engage in his usual delay of months or years before anything appears, maintaining all the while that your tax dollars are hard at work and science takes time. What a slippery guy.

On a side note, I obtained a used copy of The Monuments of Mars (4th edition) at a used bookshop this weekend for four bucks. The one thing that struck me most powerfully about the whole thing was that, while his syntax is as schizophrenic as ever, the chapters are footnoted MUCH more thoroughly than those in Dark Mission (most of which are "cited" with websites or Hoagland's own nonsense). The sense of faded glory is palpable, as is his desire for the book to be accepted as a scholarly treatise. His sloppiness has progressed to an astonishing degree in recent years, and if The Heritage of Mars ever appears, it will be fascinating to compare it with the first book.

Chris Lopes said...

Expat,
He didn't even try to get to Florida? If I'd have given him money, I'd be having a WTF moment. All that begging and all he can manage is dinner. Something tells me he fell a little short of the 80 grand.

jourget,
I'm interested knowing how you found the writing itself of the book. I remember it as being a pretty tough read, but it's been a while since I picked it up.

Misti Parker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Misti Parker said...

"Since the trip never took place and no data was forthcoming I would like my money back. Would you be so kind as to indicate how this will happen."
-- Jamie Ecosse


"After you have SEEN the spectacular results of what we recorded from both the Eclipse and the Transit, if you still want your donation returned, that will be arranged."
-- Dick the Prick

Misti Parker said...

WHEN???

Hoagland would rather owe it to him forever then to try and cheat him out of it.

FlightSuit said...

Esteban, now that I think about it, there was actually another factor in my ceasing to be a Hoagland believer: It was the fact that I couldn't help but notice that every single time anything happened in the news that garnered a ton of national attention, Hoagland was right there on Coast to Coast AM or on his Web site, telling us all what was REALLY going on behind the scenes, and naturally, what was really going on always had to do with hyperdimensional physics, ritual alignments, ancient aliens, and Nazi Rosicrucians in NASA.

For God's sake, he even said Hurricane Katrina was caused by a scalar weapon!

If Hoagie would have just once come out and said, "Nope, folks, this particular asteroid/natural disaster/lunar surface feature/weather anomaly/whatever is clearly a naturally occurring phenomenon and has nothing to do with ancient aliens or any of my other theories," he might have seemed more credible for a longer period of time.

Anonymous said...

Jamie asks for a refund, and Dick says he will give him one - so what's the problem?! Seems reasonable enough........ or so was my first thought...

Usual condescending-ness aside, it's the same old same old from Hoagie: it's now suddenly a Dec 2012 trip to Giza, whilst he writes his latest "scientific paper" - well, I guess it is the next logical step to keep the "stay tuned" adventure going. Of course, it raises the question, what would it say for Dick's popularity and following if he can't raise the $80k/$60k/$20k/$10k over the next six months?!

The faithful wait and wait for the magical results of the Venus transit; whilst in reality Hoagie is probably just jazzing-up old reports and old graphs; which shouldn't take too long to do, unless you're trying to write a book at the same time too of course!

@Chris - a great point about the "slight tension" currently happening in Egypt which Hoagie seems to have glossed over/forgotten about all together. But don't forget - Elenin came by, raised human consciousness at 19:50 GMT, started the Occupy movement and led to the people of the middle east countries starting new democracies ahead of a barry-propelled Golden Age; so Dick should have no problems whatsoever running around Giza......... (yeah, sounds about right).

@FlightSuit - ha! I'd totally pay $19.50 for a tent revival with Hoagie! I hear those hyper-dimensional healings are the best kind?! "Great success with my friend, Mr Jesus! Is niiiiiice!"

FlightSuit said...

"Like Arthur C. Clark and Steven Spielberg, my good friend Jesus of Nazareth based a lot of his material on my research. Perhaps you've heard of him."

expat said...

Regarding the inappropriate quotation marks in "Dark Mission" -- see the latest Amazon reader review, posted only 10 days ago:

http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Mission-History-Enlarged-Revised/product-reviews/1932595481/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

The publisher, Adam Parfrey, must have edited that book with a knife and fork.

Chris Lopes said...

Expat,
As to his putting stations on either end of the restaurant, not only isn't it a control, it makes no sense at all given the distances involved. Venus is about (on average) 40,000,000 km from Earth. Even if the restaurant were 1 km long (quite the buffet line), the angular distance between the 2 points works out to be (using the tangent) .0000014 degrees. As far as Venus is concerned, they are the same place.

Esteban Navarro said...

Look at this, folks, if you don´t already know. In Europe also there ufologists who not only despise "official" scientists and common sense in general, but also to historians of Art. Luckily there is always someone to put them in place, although the spread of nonsense by mainstream journalism always pay more attention to them, which often take Bara and Hoagland as a reference.

http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO.htm

Ancient UFO´s in Art. Their ridiculousness are exasperating, especially “Esaltazzione Della Eucaristía”( Ventura Salimbeni) , L´anunciazzione ( Carlo Crivelli)

http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_1.htm

and the famous “Madonna con Bambino e San Giovannino”(Mainardi / Sellaio)
http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_5.htm
that appears in Escamilla´s “Moon rising”, with Bara as a special guest .Min.2:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-pJkwsefis&feature=BFa&list=PLD1B3CCE04039E3C7

expat said...

Chris, you're absolutely right of course. Not only that, but in terms of supporting his theory that the mountain amplifies the "torsion wave" (the whole reason for being at Sandia Peak,) the two stations are equally affected by the mountain and so are invalid. As I wrote earlier, the only legitimate controls would be a) away from the mountain, and b) unaffected by the transit.

Misti Parker said...

It would have been a stroke of genius if Hoagland would have enlisted the assistance of all his fans, by having everybody do the experiment at home, right along with him as he simulcasts on one of his web based TV shows, in not on Coast.

That way, when nobody reports anything unusual, Hoagland could have said that that proves that his test is valid, up on the mountain.

jourget said...

Chris,

You're absolutely correct in Monuments being a slog to get through, but it is very distinctive from Dark Mission in a number of respects. The difference that struck me as most notable was the quantity and (to a partial degree) quality of the end-of-chapter references. The 2007 first edition of Dark Mission is 548 pages in length, and contains a total of 171 references, for an average of only one reference per 3.2 pages. In addition, 15-20% of those 171 citations are self-references by Hoagland and Bara to their other works, and the vast majority of the total are references to websites, presenting obvious long-term verification problems as pages move or disappear.

By contrast, while scientifically bankrupt as a whole, I must admit that Monuments is much more thorough in its citations of the mundane points surrounding Hoagland's theories. For example, events such as the loss of contact with Mars Observer and the various occurrences surrounding the Viking missions are well-cited with JPL status reports and mainstream news articles, a necessity when the precise timing and location of events are major foundations upon which one's theories are built. None of this attention to detail is evident in the later book, a fact that I believe suggests that Hoagland really was aiming for mainstream acceptance in the early days of his career.

As for the writing, the book really is a train wreck of epic proportions. I am startled by the fact that Hoagland apparently himself believed that Mike Bara was needed to polish up the writing for Dark Mission, yet so many of the same grammatical hiccups remain in both books as to make it look like a high school composition. The usual Hoagland red flags of inappropriate use of italics, quotation marks, and parentheses abound, sometimes to a hilarious degree.

A fun example from page 333 is: "(...apart from technical questions relating to the veracity of the image-processing algorithm which had revealed the features, the presence of "teeth" raised fascinating questions regarding possible REASONS [italics] for "building in" such "anthropological detail"-if "the teeth" were real, of course...)".

And yes, that quote was embedded within an entire separate paragraph bracketed by parentheses.

One moderating influence Bara may have provided was a grounding of the entire thesis of Dark Mission within the skewed realm of Hoagland-science. For in Monuments, elaborations on the significance of one point or another occasionally dissolve into science-fictiony third-person narratives of future explorers walking through the ruins of Cydonia, to the extent that any attempt to read the book as a scientific work quickly becomes impossible.

In short (too late), I believe that the most important point that the Hoagland critic can take away from The Monuments of Mars is the self-image Hoagland holds of himself then as contrasted with his behavior of late. Monuments is pretty clearly written in a way that practically begs for mainstream acceptance, and its author views himself as doing important and outspoken work. This view by Hoagland of himself has not changed much in the intervening decades, and he certainly doesn't give much of a fig for improving his writing. What HAS evolved as his "science" has gone steadily further off the rails over the years is the way in which he markets his work. He is now a weird hybrid of a thin scientific veneer (still TRYING to include references, weak as they are) over a more solid core of nutball raving. He knows the latter is where, for him, the money will come from, so he speaks to that audience on Coast and at conferences. I actually find his reluctance to let go of presenting the image of a "scientist" pretty fascinating. It's not like it would matter much one way or the other. If The Heritage of Mars ever appears, it'll be great to compare it with the other two books.

expat said...

Jourget: Do you have "Dark Mission" 1st edn? I have the 2nd edn and I'd be interested in comparing the description of Ken Johnston's career in the two. I know that section was changed.

Chris Lopes said...

jourget,
That was an interesting and spot on analysis. It dovetails with my theory that at one time Hoagland actually believed this stuff, otherwise he wouldn't have put so much work into it. Eventually he understood he was wrong, but the money was too easy to give up.

jourget said...

Expat,

From Dark Mission (1st Edition), Chapter Four: The Crystal Towers of the Moon, subsection "The Ken Johnston Collection", pp. 144-146:

"A few months after the NSSDC visit, in early 1995, Hoagland was on a lecture tour in Seattle. It was then that he met Ken Johnston-a Boeing engineer at the time, and a former fighter-jock and test pilot for Grumman Aerospace. After his tour of duty in the Marines as an F-4 pilot, Johnston had gone to work at NASA in the mid-1960s as the chief Lunar Module test pilot at the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston. There he and his team subsequently trained all of the Apollo astronauts to fly the Lunar Module, while simultaneously being part of the extensive spacesuit development program ("I was 'capsule size,'" Johnston would later joke).

Johnston later moved across the center, going to work for Brown-Root Corporation and the Northrop Corporation in MSC's Lunar Receiving Laboratory (LRL)-the literal "eye of the storm" during Apollo. This consortium had the prime contract for the processing of the actual lunar samples coming back on Apollo, and Ken's key function was as "supervisor of the data and photo control department." This was the section of the LRL that handled all of the critical photographic and written documentation related to Humanity's first returned pieces of the Moon; after processing elsewhere in the Lab, the films and samples also went through Johnston's office for cataloging and long-term storage.

...Johnston explained that, as head of the LRL photo lab, it was his responsibility to catalog and archive all of the Apollo photographs. As part of the archiving process, the LRL eventually developed four complete sets of Apollo orbital and handheld photography, comprising literally tens of thousands of first-generation photographic negatives and prints.

Ken also had responsibility for managing the 16mm mission films from the on-board "sequence cameras" (modified military gun cameras), operating from the Command Module and Lunar Modules during various phases of the missions, including lunar orbit and descent/ascent. One of his duties was to frequently screen these "on-orbit films" at MSC, before members of the various scientific and engineering teams."

Chris Lopes said...

Expat,
I'm afraid your summer dining will have to include some past words. Hoagland did a bit of begging for his "trip" to Egypt tonight, though how pleased Noory was about it is open to question.

FlightSuit said...

Forgive me for not being up-to-speed on this, but what is the significance of Hoagland's description of Ken Johnston's career? I'm sure it's been covered already, so again, I'm sorry for asking.

Anonymous said...

I haven't listened to Dick's C2C "science presentation" yet, but if this picture (http://i50.tinypic.com/nsysm.jpg) taken direct from the C2C website is anything to go by, I'm going to need to bring extra socks for when Captain Enterprise blows them off - I mean, just look at it!! It looks so science-y: we've got geometry circles, we've got lots of numbers, and we've got big green spikes both up AND down!!! Surely this proves beyond any shadow of a doubt the existence of hyper-dimensional torsion physics goings-on (you know, unless we're all just too stoooopid to "get it").

expat said...

Thanks Jourget. Now this (caps added where versions differ significantly):
=============================
From Dark Mission (2nd Edition), Chapter Four: The Crystal Towers of the Moon, subsection "The Ken Johnston Collection", pp. 214-215:

"A few months after the NSSDC visit in early 1995, Hoagland was on a lecture tour in Seattle when he met Ken Johnston, a Boeing engineer at the time AND A LICENSED PILOT. After his tour of duty in the Marines WHERE HE TRAINED IN PLANES LIKE THE F-4 PHANTOM, Johnston had gone to work at NASA in the mid-1960s UNDER A CONTRACT TO GRUMMAN AEROSPACE. There he and his team subsequently trained all of the Apollo astronauts to operate the Lunar Module, while simultaneously participating in the extensive spacesuit development program ("I was 'capsule size,'" Johnston would later joke).

Johnston later moved across the center, going to work for Brown-Root Corporation and the Northrop Corporation in MSC's Lunar Receiving Laboratory (LRL)--the literal "eye of the storm" during Apollo. This consortium had the prime contract for the processing of the actual lunar samples coming back on Apollo, and Ken's key function was as "supervisor of the data and photo control department." This was the section of the LRL that handled all of the critical photographic and written documentation related to Humanity's first returned pieces of the Moon; after processing elsewhere in the Lab, the films and samples also went through Johnston's office for cataloging and long-term storage.

...Johnston explained that, as head of the LRL photo lab, it was his responsibility to catalog and archive all of the Apollo photographs. As part of the archiving process, the LRL eventually developed four complete sets of Apollo orbital and handheld photography, comprising literally tens of thousands of first-generation photographic negatives and prints.

Ken also had responsibility for managing the 16mm mission films from the on-board "sequence cameras" (modified military gun cameras), operating from the Command Module and Lunar Modules during various phases of the missions, including lunar orbit and descent/ascent. One of his duties was to frequently screen these "on-orbit films" at MSC, before members of the various scientific and engineering teams."
============================

FlightSuit: No need to apologize. The significance of this is that Ken Johnston falsified his credentials, to Richard Hoagland and also to the Solar System Ambassador program, in which he was a volunteer. James Oberg researched Johnston's military records and posted to the original "Dark Mission" blog that it appeared Johnston had not completed training and had never been a test pilot. In addition, his Ph.D. was awarded by the Reform Baptist Theological Seminary and is not a true Ph.D.

Mike Bara insisted, in a whole series of posts to the blog in November 2007, that the original text was correct. He was so vociferous that the fact he eventually had to climb down is amusing.

Here's the first of those blogposts:

http://mikebara.blogspot.com/2007/11/chronology-of-events-empire-strikes_12.html

Here's James Oberg's version of events:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=144115

expat said...

I'll have to review the recording of last night's three-hour rant. Before I dropped off I remember Noory absolutely PLEADING with RCH to explain wtf torsion waves are in terms comprehensible to normal human beings. Nothing doing there.

expat said...

OK, reviewed the missing flim-flam. I love how he admitted that, last thursday, the Accutron "went nuts for 12 hours non-stop." The graphic he supplied is incredibly unconvincing. I reckon that damn watch is garbage.

And where's the Venus transit data he was working on "round the clock for weeks"?

Misti Parker said...

Halfway through the show, the Space NAZIS must have zapped my radio. Is there a youtube link yet for last nights show?

Misti Parker said...

Glenn Gottfredson

Heard you last night on Coast2Coast-..torsion phenomena called to mind Maurice Cotterell's theory of atomic torsional alignment radiation. Any comments? I enjoy your thoughts on things. Glenn

Like · · 59 minutes ago near San Jose, CA

Lisa Wahlund likes this.


Richard Hoagland for Host of Coast

Astronauts leave Earth with their high quality wrist watches set to the correct time, yet even though upon return from the mission, the watches are still functioning perfectly, and nobody re-set the time, they then are running as if set slow.

Is this a result of "Relativity" or "Inertia"?

25 minutes ago · Like


Richard Hoagland for Host of Coast

What is it about limestone that results in the amplification of torsion? What would happen if we were to nuke the Great Pyramid?

18 minutes ago · Like


Richard Hoagland for Host of Coast

By demockratizing the peer review process and handing out vintage Accutrons like Halloween candies, so that everybody in the Coast audience gets to experiment along with Dick, will the inevitable results of nobody getting any unusual readings necessarily validate that Captain Hoagland's anomalous readings prove torsion?

11 minutes ago · Like

Chris Lopes said...

Misti,
You try this site for last night's show.

Chris Lopes said...

Expat,
Are you planning a full review of last night, or have you already given it as much time as you think it deserves?

Misti Parker said...

Good score, Chris.

expat said...

Chris I'm not going to do a full review. So much of it was the Accutron stuff I've already gone over multiple times. If he ever presents the Venus transit data I'll cover it.

Chris Lopes said...

In that case, I'll post my own comments on it in this thread.

Not only was Hoagland begging for money for his trip to Egyot, he was also trying to get himself (and his redheaded sidekick) attached to the expedition investigating the "mysterious object" in the Baltic Sea. He even used (yet again) a quote from 2001: A Space Odyssey (another what did Stanley know and when did he know it moment) to prove that the something is HD related. BTW, he got the quote wrong. In the movie the lady Russian scientist says her husband is "doing "underwater research" in the Baltic not "underwater archaeology". In any case, it was a throw away line used to show (by inference) the kind of social circles Heywood Floyd travels in.

He did indeed spend a lot of the show going over his Accutron research, with the expected (by me anyway) result. I have suggested elsewhere on this site that such a topic would not exactly make for great radio. Hoagland was kind enough to prove me quite correct in that idea. It especially dragged when Hoagie decided to give a lecture on the history of HD physics, which couldn't have been more boring if he'd tried.

I too thought the 12 hours thing was amusing. Apparently "Mr. Science" didn't realize that the Earth was moving during that time and putting large bodies of water (that magic stuff that blocks HD waves remember?) between his watch and whatever celestial phenom was supposedly affecting it. Someday he'll learn to keep his BS straight, but last night was not that day.

Mars was also covered for a bit, with Norry offering and Hoagland accepting praise for his "foresight" that Mars had recently (in the geological sense, a fact even Hoagland was sure to mention) had water. Hoagland then made a prediction about Obama (which he apparently no longer sees as destiny's child) saving his reelection by announcing evidence of microscopic life on Mars. I think it's interesting he has stepped back from his earlier prediction of an announcement of past intelligent life on Mars.

The listener calls were lame as usual. The effort to protect Hoagland from questions that might expose him has left that part of the show as lifeless as it gets. There was one listener who offered a more conventional explanation for the Baltic thing, but Captain Not-So-Obvious was having nothing of that.

All in all, it was a typical Hoagland/Noory show. Boring and pointless, with no chance for the listener to get those 3 hours of their life back.

FlightSuit said...

Thanks for the explanation, Expat!

Say, does anybody remember those times when Hoagland has claimed that Mars used to have a lot more of an atmosphere, but that said atmosphere had been suddenly and violently ripped from it by some cataclysmic celestial event?

Those poor Martians!

expat said...

FlightSuit: That's a fairly well-accepted theory. Hoagland adopted James Van Flandern's version of Martian history, which is maximally violent. But you can hypothesize the same result without all the violence.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/21nov_plasmoids/

Biological_Unit said...

that said atmosphere had been suddenly and violently ripped from it

Venus, Mars and Earth are in an obvious Resonance. SATURN occupies an important position in Ancient Roman mythology. But why? It's barely visible.
To sum up, in ancient times, planets were NOT well behaved. Mars has Methane from it's birth inside Saturn and Venus is still cooling off from it's birth!

Chris Lopes said...

Expat,
I think the difference is that Hoagland thinks the violent event was a war using HD physics based weapons. At least that was one of his theories at one time. The guy changes narratives so often, it's tough to keep track.

Anonymous said...

Expat... Sad that you've convinced yourself 'FREE ENERGY DEVICES'aka('bullshit science') do not exist....Well DO sum proper research instead of just lettin' BS dribble out of your mouth! come back when you have and still say they don't! and i'll show you that they do..!

FlightSuit said...

I suppose you're going to link to some YouTube videos claiming the free energy devices have been suppressed by the oil industry?

expat said...

Anonymous wrote "Well DO sum proper research..."

Anonymous, you must be a regular Youtube commenter, I recognize the style immediately (although it's more often something like "Do sum risearch asshole".)

OK, I've done the research. I'm back. There are no free energy machines out there. It's still bullshit science.

Anonymous said...

uphttp://freeenergynews.com/SmartScarecrow/2012/07/05/

Anonymous said...

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Events:2012:ExtraOrdinary_Technology_Conference#PreRegistration_Special

Anonymous said...

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politaia.org%2Fwissenschaft-forschung%2Fbrillouin-corp-%25E2%2580%2593-die-derzeit-5-wichtigsten-%25E2%2580%259Cfreie-energie%25E2%2580%259D-technologien-teil3%2F

Anonymous said...

suppression of FREE ENERGY! http://www.putlocker.com/file/E6D0061D8234EB6F

Anonymous said...

Expat...like I said go do some RESEARCH and WAKE UP... if you want more just ask!

expat said...

Anonymous.... like I said I've done the research and I'm fully awake. THERE ARE NO FREE ENERGY DEVICES.

Anonymous said...

I SEE SAID the BLIND MAN!....I have personally witnessed two of these devices working and I am now near to completion of one myself!.. this wave energy is ALL around and is INFINITE...!

expat said...

Oh dear, I'm afraid you've been conned by clever hucksters making free energy appear to work. I hope for your sake you haven't been conned even worse by investing money in that rubbish.

Anonymous said...

Conned! Into what? No investment here Expat, Just a little of my TIME and knowledge...I know your GAME!! You are full of SHIT and are here to TRY and sway away interest... Sorry but you have FAILED! It is You who spreads DIS-INFO!Everyoneshouldl check out those LINKS...and make your own decisions based on research, DON'T listen to THIS joker.. 'Expat'

FlightSuit said...

Anonymous, perhaps you'd care to elaborate on this "wave energy" that is all around us. What are its properties, and how does one measure it?

Is this wave energy...

hyper-dimensional?

;-)

Anonymous said...

It has to be HD or it wouldn't EXIST .... research torus energy, standing wave theory... Tesla new this and look what happened to his work, watch the John Searl Story link above..it explains quite alot!

FlightSuit said...

You keep telling us to do research. I think if you want to win Internet debates, the burden is on you to link to shit that supports your assertions, as opposed to telling us to keep doing research until we agree with you.