Mare Crisium has been the site of numerous historical reports of TLP (transient lunar phenomena), and also the sensational (and utterly mistaken) 1953 report by journalist John O'Neill of an artificial bridge over part of the mare1,2. It's also the site of the so-called "spire," which may well be yet another scanner fault. It certainly isn't, as both Bara and Hoagland have written, part of a box several miles high. Even those satellite dishes, that I blogged about on October 12th, are right around here.
But back to Picard. Mike Bara shows us this picture, a small detail from AS16-121-19438:
caption: High contrast version of crater Picard from AS16-121-19438
That image was taken after Apollo 16's LM, Orion, had returned to orbit following three highly fruitful moonwalks. It's a really wide angle, showing fully a third of the lunar hemisphere. Bara writes (p.103):
This unmistakable pie-slice shaped structure glows in the sunlight, illuminating what must be the last remaining piece of a solid, watch-crystal like dome over the crater itself.Under intense enhancement, the wedge-shaped piece is even more obvious. (emphasis added)
That "what must be" is a strong contender for "most unscientific statement written this century." As with the satellite dishes, it's a profound mystery why Mike Bara chose this extremely poor image of Picard, when an image at approximately 0.8m resolution is so easily available from Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (14.6°N, 54.7°E). Here it is:
photo credit: LROC NAC
Where's that pie-slice now, Bara? Eh?? EH?????
1. See Bulletin of the Astronomical Institutes of Czechoslovakia, vol. 8, p.33
2. O'Neill's Bridge (wikispaces)
I don't see how Mike can use the 'sun at the wrong angle excuse' for not using the LROC images. If there truly was a 'pie-slice shaped' (whatever that is) glass dome fragment over Picard, the edges would easily be visible in this overhead view, as well as the shadow it would cast on the ground below, not to mention a reflection from the sun.
Yes, it's totally lame.
Picard, after Jean-Luc?
It's same as you pointed out in a previous thread, Paddycakes, the original face on Mars had what, 5 meters of resolution, is it? So the face on Mars is actually a squished together image of the desert which is actually spread out a lot more than what's depicted, right?
Or would film used during Apollo, not be subject to that same sort of spacial distortion?
Not Jean-Luc but Jean.
The original, Viking orbiter, image was 250m/pixel. Really, really crude. The Ektachrome film used for Apollo was very fine grained, but there were a variety of lenses provided and the Apollo 16 shot was the shortest focal length they had, meaning the widest angle possible. Hence it was useless for seeing detail in them thar craters. Mike Bara doesn't understand that.
Viking orbiter? Didn't Viking go to Mars, not the moon?
Yes, "Misti" was asking about Mars, Face On.
Ah, sorry. I thought you were referring to the imaging of Picard.
FYI the lenses were:
Command Module: 80mm f/2.8, 250mm
Lunar Module: 60mm, 500mm
ref: Press Kit,, p.123
approx view angle in degrees =
where d =width of film (70mm for Apollo)
f=focal length of lens
So for the 60mm lens, angle is 67° -- pretty wide.
Those specs help, but I sort of wonder if the resolution of film with grain doesn't provide more information than the space between the pixels of digital imaging?
I recently watched a trailer for the anniversary theatrical release of a directors cut of the God Father. That vintage movie was not made for the larger projection lenses and screens of this more modern era. At such high magnification, the grain is intolerable. Of course it was film bumped to digital, but pixelation was not contributing to the distortion at all. The grain was simply gigantic.
Why are Mike and Hoagy so hung up on glass domes. Given that their pictures show nothing but their own imaginations, why domes?
Would not oh... pyramids fit better with their mythos?
I wonder what Mike means when he writes "enhancement"? The so-called enhanced image of Picard in his Picasa gallery just looks a bit more contrasty. In terms of interpreting what it shows, I'd say he's degraded it rather than enhanced it. Perhaps that's deliberate.
The whole "we can add information by 'enhancing' the image" idea is completely bogus anyway. If it's not in the original image, it's not there. You can't make it appear by applying Photoshop magic.
Why was NASA wrong about the show that bombed when the bunker buster they dropped where Hoagland says there are domes, didn't produce the predicted cloud of rising dust?
LCROSS didn't bomb (well, I guess it did, it dropped a bomb of a kind on crater Cabeus) it was highly successful.
Here's a press release:
Here's the wikipage:
No, NASA said that there would be a big dust plume that would show up brightly illuminated by the Sun. They got everybody to stare at the Moon and we didn't see shit. Why didn't we?
A Flash of Insight: LCROSS Mission Update
August 11, 2008: There are places on the Moon where the sun hasn't shined for millions of years. Dark polar craters too deep for sunlight to penetrate are luna incognita, the realm of the unknown, and in their inky depths, researchers believe, may lie a treasure of great value.
NASA is about to light one up.
Sometime between May and August 2009, depending on launch dates, the booster stage for NASA's LCROSS probe will deliberately crash into a permanently-shadowed lunar crater at 9,000 km/hr, producing an explosion equivalent to about 2,000 pounds of TNT (6.5 billion joules). The blast will jettison material out of the crater into broad daylight where astronomers can search the debris for signs of lunar water.
NASA moon bombing violates space law & may cause conflict with lunar ET/UFO civilizations
June 19, 2009
By: Alfred Lambremont Webre
Commentary: The planned October 9, 2009 bombing of the moon by a NASA orbiter that will bomb the moon with a 2-ton kinetic weapon to create a 5 mile wide deep crater as an alleged water-seeking and lunar colonization experiment, is contrary to space law prohibiting environmental modification of celestial bodies. The NASA moon bombing, a component of the LCROSS mission, may also trigger conflict with known extraterrestrial civilizations on the moon as reported on the moon in witnessed statements by U.S. astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong, and in witnessed statements to NSA (National Security Agency) photos and documents regarding an extraterrestrial base on the dark side of the moon.
If the true intent of the LCROSS mission moon bombing is a hostile act by NASA against known extraterrestrial civilizations and settlements on the moon, then NASA and by extension the U.S. government are guilty of aggressive war which is the most serious of war crimes under the U.N. Charter and the Geneva Conventions, to which the U.S. is subject. The U.N. Outer Space Treaty, which the U.S. has ratified, requires that “ The moon and other celestial bodies shall be used by all States Parties to the Treaty exclusively for peaceful purposes. The establishment of military bases, installations and fortifications, the testing of any type of weapons and the conduct of military manoeuvres on celestial bodies shall be forbidden.” 98 nations have ratified and 125 nations have signed the U.N. Outer Space Treaty.
The conversation , the ET base...is an old English prank, Mistic,but I think you already know, don´t you?
Well, Misti, nobody on the moon retaliated, did they? Lol!
Alfred Lambremont Webre is a lawyer, not a scientist.
There are no statements by U.S. astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong regarding an extraterrestrial base on the dark side of the moon, unless you count statements along the lines of "No, we didn't see that."
LCROSS was not a weapon.
I don't know why the impact plume was less than expected. Phil Plait's blog may have something on that.
Don't be so sure. Remember Alderaan?
Sorry, remind me. Who or what is Alderaan?
I just loooove the whole conspiracy mindset. Better to believe some celebrity gossip site than a NASA report (because celebrity journalists are always right and NASA covers up everything in case we might turn into brain-eating zombies and re-elect Obama or something).
BTW, have you guys seen Iron Sky yet? I just did and it's hilarious. It literally rips open every space-based conspiracy and just gets nuttier and nuttier as it goes along. Basically, the descendants of the original Nazis escaped to the Moon, built a base and taught their kids that once all humans are Aryanized, there will be world peace. The first man on the moon in 50 years is black, Sarah Palin is president and there's references to Dr. Strangelove and there's a 1138 in there somewhere.
If you've ever listened to a conspiracy rant, that's what the story is like. Loads of inconsistent to impossible events took place to make improbable things happen and, of course, it's all true. If Hoagie and Mike were good storytellers, they could almost have written it themselves.
Best bit, the movie makes fun of conspiracies too much for Hoagie and Mike to use it for clues. Guess they'll have to stick with "Mission to Mars" for now.
Hoagland says that the reason that there was no dust plume, was because the domes are sooooo big, that the hole that the bunker buster put in one, was not big enough for the dust to get out. I haven't heard any explanation from NASA at all. That's what I mean about NASA. They never give you all the information. Is it any wonder that people get all conspiratorial? NASA need to become much more accountable, because tax payers are fed up with paying their money and taking it in the butt.
Misti, a two-second google search provided me with NASA's explanation, dating from Oct. 21, 2010:
Exactly, mistic, NASA has to explain any infatuation that comes to mind to any nutcase, yes, it would be wellworth its money .... Not like the U.S. DOD, right? yes ... they do well in explaining in what democratic things spends 40% "taxpayers' money" (Don´t you get tired of that demagogic litany yet?)
Thanks for the link, Strahlungsamt, that Shakespearean accent of Peter Cushing... (And a little of Carrie Fisher!!!, ha ha ,ha...) Nice.
Trekkie, you are full of shit. That linked article does not give NASASS' explanation as to why they made the false claim, that there would be a dust plume visible from Earth, and why that plume did not occur.
Estabanned, when NASA makes false claims and the public calls them on it, your name calling does not defend NASA for lying again.
Even the close up videos don't show a plume. It's a perfect example of the Emperor's New Cloths.
Misti, I think the fact that they originally claimed that a prominent plume would most likely occur, and then a plume less conspicuous in the visual spectrum than expected (not NO plume, as you seem to imply) showed up is a really excellent example of why we do science. The current models of ice on the lunar south pole said one thing would happen, then the LCROSS results said something was a little off. The conclusion to be drawn from these quotes is that we learned something we didn't know before. Before the fact statements that end up being incorrect and non-credentialed folks who said something on the internet once do not compelling evidence of a conspiracy make.
NASA publicized a great big plume that was supposed to be visible from Earth, and it wasn't even visible in video. NASA offered no explanation as to what happened to the plume. It's just like Hoagland announcing his birthday wish for loot so he could go to Egypt. Instead, he gypped everybody and went to his local bar and celebrated his birthday there. He hasn't said a word about that, either.
I want my money back from NASA. At least I had sense enough after that fiasco then to give any money to Hoagland.
Not only wasn't the plume visible on video, it wasn't visible in even the highest-powered Earth telescopes looking for it. Still doesn't mean anything. NASA isn't a Hollywood studio promising a whiz-bang blockbuster and then failing to deliver. They do science. If they could have said with 100% accuracy what they would see before they launched the mission, then there would have been no need for the mission. They didn't say why they got those results immediately afterward because, with real scientists, incorporating new results takes time. You're right about the advantages about a balanced critique, but absolutely wrong about Hoagland and NASA being exactly alike.
Really? I'm still waiting for NASA to make a retraction about that arsenic eating bacteria. NASA delays a press conference to coincide with the return of the nine month absence of the nuclear powered, Project Prometheus, X-37B, which Hoagland also ignored, makes a big bogus announcement of new, alien forms of life, and then never owns up to having lied yet again.
NASA delays the press conference to steal the headlines about the unexplained mission of the X-37B. The Air-force claimed that it had simply disappeared. All the public's attention was on NASA claiming alien life now astronomically much more feasible with the discovery of the arsenic eating bacteria. Richard C Hoagland goes on Coast to Coast AM in support of NASASS' claims, while also making no mention, even in passing, about the X-37B. George Noory's first interview with Hoagland was an entire show about Project Prometheus, the nuclear powered Spacecraft. The next day after the press conference, Hoagland nuked all referecne from his facebutt page, about the X-37B and Project Prometheus. NASA held that televised press conference, not only to divert from the secret mission of the nuclear powered Project Prometheus, X-37B, but also to reach the largest possible audience. How many people today, are still under the impression that alien life has been announced by NASA, despite the small articles that subsequently smashed the faulty science to smithereens? There is no arsenic eating bacteria.
Now that NASA says that a "plastic containment" of an uncertain origin was discovered by Curiosity. What ever happened to all of those dispersing Mars probes? Did they crash on the surface of the planet, did the Martians shoot them down, or did the X-37B already go and retrieve them all?
NASA has deliberately muddied the water. By announcing feasibility of alien life, irrespective of the fact that the science was bogus, everybody thinks that it's true. By finding plastic on the surface of Mars, if bacteria ever is discovered, there is no way to say that it wasn't introduced by the clumsiness of NASA; plastic can't be sterilized. There is no way for anybody to know anything for certain, one way or another. The one true thing that Hoagland often says, is: "The lie is different at every level."
Now, if bacteria is announced to have been discovered on Mars, and NASA is to say that it can't be sure if they didn't put it there themselves, people will jump to the conclusion that NASA is being overly conservative, or trying to cover up alien life. After all, even if a silicone based bacteria were to be found on Mars, NASA already will be remembered to have already discovered it in the Salton Sea in the low valley of the Southern California desert.
Yep. Just like the X-37B, and the plume on the Moon, all those old Mars probes simply disappeared. I wan't my FLICK'N money back!
Yep, just like that arsenic eating bacteria, simply disappeared, so did MY MONEY!
all those old Mars probes simply disappeared
I'm sure you could do better with help from Orbs and "feelings".
"My name callin?" Me? Ha ha ha...
Are Chris and Expat terrible secret agents of disinformation already or not?
Have you run out for insulting Arabs and communists? Why insult our intelligence with that childish tantrums ´bout NASA and taxes and "The public"?Who´s the public ?You?
Please, tell me you have something more than x37b and bacteria to conclude that NASA lies ... A far-right tradition of conspiranoia on Internet against science and common sense depends on it ...
>>NASA already will be remembered to have already discovered it in the Salton Sea in the low valley of the Southern California desert.<<
Mono Lake, not Salton Sea.
The claim was not that GFAJ-1 "ate" arsenic but that it substituted arsenic for phosphorous in its DNA backbone. NOT nucleotides, by the way, as Hoagland thought.
But indeed, the claim is now falsified.
NASASS' claim has indeed been proven to be WRONG and NASA has yet to own up to it, let alone, hold another big press conference to clear things up with all the people who were hoodwinked.
"Feelings"? How am I supposed to feel?
As far as the Orbs are concerned, my opinions are based upon observations, not feelings. However, when the Orbs showed up outside my terminal mothers hospital room, and minutes after she died, folded her corpse up in the electric bed, so that the only way we could stop it was to unplug the current, yeah, that sort of made me feel like shit.
Expat, did you see Mike's scaaaary message to you on his FB (author) page? I'm sure you'll be shaking in your boots. Lol!
I may be wrong but I see some humor in that. I'm not taking it as scary.
I'm not sure we could say the same phrase for Misti, Expat. (Glups)
Well, as he's not the most articulate, I suppose it could be seen in more ways than one.
I took it as meaning he was going to elaborate on what you wrote on the 15th about his comment on a radio show: "that he's hired an investigator to track me down and he will soon file a restraining order against me."
Perrys Ridiculouswig I'm not sure that pointing out the many many factual errors in your work would be classed as cyberstalking Mike. For example writing that light can penetrate our deepest oceans and be reflected off the ocean floor back into space. This is what you wrote Mike, and it's horribly wrong.
17 minutes ago · Like
Just because what I have to say rubs up against other people's irrational denial, doesn't mean that I'm the one who's scared.
Bareass' just hoping ExPat might stir up some ratings for him's all.
For those of us banned from Mikey's FB page, what is he saying?
Chris, I doubt if you're banned from the author page. I'm not.
btw binaryspellbook's comment is already history.
I found it and left a quote from a very wise man.
I just posted to Bara's facebutt author page, with a couple of my handles, and both of those ghosts are banned.
Misti, if you will shut up about "orbs, Prometheus, nuclear powered X-37B, and your feelings" I will personally give you your share of the NASA back. I will even let Expat be the go between so you won't feel threatened.
Good grief, woman, why don't you spend some time in your local library actually learning some science rather than listening to Hoax to Hoax and whining about things you don't understand?
I heard most of Bara on Darkness last night. There was no opportunity for cyber-stalking, in fact.
It's not worth a review -- same old drivel.
Have some fun.....
And a laugh..
You guys are the ones talking about feelings, so screw you.
NASA lies about lost Mars probes.
NASA lies about the color of Mars.
NASA lies about alien life forms.
NASA lies about plumes on the Moon.
NASA lies about plastic on Mars.
You guys are the one's talking about you luvy duvy feeling for NASA.
1. Plastic can be sterilized. If Curiosity was infected, the infection probably wouldn't get very far. Mars is very very cold with such a thin atmosphere, the germs would probably remain in deep freeze, if they survived at all. I also doubt NASA would be that careless since it sterilizes the rest of the probe so thoroghly.
2. Ever hear of satellite tracking stations? Basically, they are in every country that has ever launched a satellite and they monitor every object orbiting the planet, whether they own it or not. If xb37 (or whatever number it was) took off for Mars, the tracking stations would have noticed and somebody would have opened their big mouth. Classified or not, it was visible and if it made any funny moves, it would be detected immediately. Plus, if it had nuclear engines, it would have left a trail of radioactive material behind it which I think would be easily detected. There's satellites watching for all kinds of stuff now.
3. Mars probes are pretty vulnerable. Mars is not far from the Asteroid Belt so the probability of smashing into a rock should be higher around Mars than around Earth. Plus, if even the slightest thing breaks in space, a probe is toast. Not a conspiracy.
4. I've already posted about false color photography. I won't repeat myself.
5. No life has been found on the Moon or Mars. The Russians, Japanese, Indians, Europeans and Chinese haven't found life either. I think it's safe to say both worlds are sterile.
6. If there were smaller than expected plumes, that's because the Lunar soil is different from what the scientists expected. Not a conspiracy. I hope you didn't catch a cold watching the Moon and hoping to see something.
Plastic cannot be sterilized, but there is probably lots of other contaminated trash on Mars as well. Nevertheless, any bacterial contamination on Mars from NASA may be as you say, Strangulatedautoeroticassphixation,unlikely, but still possible enough that NASA cannot say for sure that any bacteria found on Mars was not introduced there by them, or from one of their missing probes, or one of Russia's missing probes. Russia may or may not care to sterilize their gear, and they most certainly do not permit any independent inspection of them.
Even if NASA nuked the Moon, there is so much radiation in Space that man can't colonize Mars anyway.
Secret or not, you'll never know.
If any alien forms of bacteria are found, someone can always insinuate that it could have come from Earth, anyway, because NASA made the false claim about the arsenic eating bacteria.
Without an accurate grey scale, any color reproductions might well absorb certain actual colors.
Governments have and do keep secrets quite effectively. If not, then tell us, Strangulatedautoeroticassphixation,just precisely where did the X-37B disappear to?
You bring up a good point. The Planetary Society recently ran an article on China's second lunar orbiter (Chang'e 2) that has departed lunar orbit and is enroute for a flyby of asteroid Toutatis. China being who they are, nothing has been heard about the mission's events except an announced flyby date of January 6, 2013. However, turns out that Chang'e 2 was "discovered" by a telescope doing a sky survey and given a temporary designation as an asteroid, until its true identity became known. Refinement of the spacecraft's orbit gives an actual flyby date in December 2012, a month earlier than the Chinese government's statements, despite there being no announcement to that effect.
You can read the article here: http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/20120825-change-2-the-full-story.html
Chang'e 2 is roughly half the mass of the X-37B (2550 kg vs. 4990 kg), so the X-37B would be even more visible if it decided to hightail it out of Earth orbit. Additionally, I'm sure there are many more conspiracy-minded folks besides Misti who actually keep an eye on the behavior of the X-37B while it's in flight, and would scream bloody murder if anything remotely like what she or Hoagland is saying happened actually happened.
This isn't a new phenomenon. Spacecraft have been spotted outside of Earth orbit on multiple occasions (Galileo, Rosetta, etc.), and many of you may remember an Apollo-era S-IVB being designated as an asteroid a few years back. It's not easy to sweep a single secret space mission under the rug, and I'd wager it's impossible for a whole secret space program to exist.
Once again, GFAJ-1 does NOT EAT ARSENIC. The claim was that it substituted As for P in its DNA backbone.
I make a lot more good points than just that. I blast you out of the water, Strangulatedautoeroticassphixation.
There were reports of armature astronomers who had supposedly believed themselves to have sighted the X-37B in orbit, but the Airforce never said that was the case. Just like NASA pays Hoagland to convince everybody that they are hiding stuff, so that people will support NASA. The X-37B is the nuclear powered Project Prometheus, and you don't need nuclear power to orbit the Earth.
You know Patacakes, there are snake handle'n churches in Alabama, where the congregation all drinks strychnine with no problemo.
Off topic - like your Manly Arms and Penis.
Misti, do you want your contribution to NASA back or not?
Oh yes, care to explain to me how plastics roytinely used in medical practice are sterilized? Oh, wait, they have not told you on Hoax to Hoax yet so you are essentially clueless.
Misti, it isn't what you don't know that will hurt you nearly as much as what you do know that isn't so.
Plastic used in medical setting ISN'T sterilized and coincidentally, super bugs are found primarily, in medical settings. If doctors actually cured people, they'd be out of business.
If radiation even were an effective means of sterilization, then there could be no life on Mars in any event.
This whole pretense of NASA sterilizing everything it sends to the Moon and Mars, is just to make an indirect subliminal suggestion to the subconscious mind of the public, inferring that there actually could be life on the Moon and Mars.
With all of the radiation in Space, what sort of life forms could possibly exist there?
The explanation by doctors for the ever increasing incidence of super bugs in hospitals is, that it's the result of so much sterilization. Supposedly, only the strongest bugs can resist the disinfectant cleaning solutions used to TRY and sterilize operating rooms.
Even if NASA were to have irradiated all plastic sent to Mars, there is no guarantee that the material had actually been effectively sterilized. If bacteria is claimed to be found on Mars, then it could only be a factual claim, if radiation is not an effective means of sterilization; which by the way, it isn't.
So we are back to square one again. Finding bacteria on Mars does not prove alien life, especially according to NASASS' standing claim that a silicone based life form has already been found on Earth.
The public will never know the truth for certain, because NASA has muddied the water with evidence subject to inherent circular reasoning.
Hoagland had the right idea to start with, by looking for artifacts. Finding artifacts is the only thing that will prove life on Mars. Of course, Hoagland softens the blow to the concern cited in the so-called, Brookings' Report, by asserting that the Martians who built the monuments on Mars, originally came from Earth, or vice versa. The problem with this is, that the only evidence we have are inaccurate color images from an agency that has a proven track history of deception. Bacteria may be resistant to radiation, and man may have some tolerance, but sending INDEPENDANT, objective, open, honest, eye witnesses to Mars, in probably a non-starter.
If you understood natural selection, you'd realize that the explanation for superbugs that you quoted makes perfect sense.
If you read about extremophiles, you'd realize that a high radiation environment does not preclude the existence of life.
Just because a random claim exists that runs counter to the "mainstream" explanation, does not mean that that claim is invested with any kind of veracity, even among a modern populace that's highly suspicious of the government. You have to either understand the concepts involved, or *look up* whether what the alternative claim suggests could even be possible. Sorry it takes a little more work, but that's the way it is. No one's impressed by the random reposting of something you saw once. Oooooh, it was on the INTERNET, everybody!!
Also, I'll thank everyone for refraining from a juvenile joke about Pamela Anderson being the "silicone" based life form Misti's talking about.
I've looked up everything necessary to make my point, Jourget, but you are certainly free to cite any studies to support your vague allusions.
I'm not saying that super bugs aren't cultivated by disinfecting. In fact the point is that if that is the case, then irradiation might produce a similar effect. It might even be possible to create a silicone based bacteria, despite the fact that NASA failed to actually produce one.
Belief in supposed possibilities is not science. A hypotheses is simply the first step towards developing a testable theory.
Just as GM foods without clinical trials, is like pushing Phen Phen out on the market they way that was done, this big anxious impatience for instant gratification does not justify pseudo scientists voting for the most glamorous hypothesis upon which to base conclusions.
However, with all the radiation out in Space, that greatly decreases the likelihood of life off planet. One more reason why the Orbs are probably not quite what would be considered to be physical life.
Has anybody found anywhere yet, in some other solar system or different galaxy perhaps, a planet with or without a humanly breathable atmosphere, that has a magnetic field that shields it from radiation?
or different galaxy perhaps?
Nearest Galaxy - 1 Million Light Years distant.
1 Million times 6 Trillion Miles equals 6 MILLION TRILLION miles.
You are an Idiot.
Hubble can see so far, it can look all the way back in time, to the moment after the supposed Big Bang.
New solar systems are being discovered all the time. Even planets have been found in other solar systems.
I honestly don't know if any of these newly discovered solar systems with found planets are in any other galaxy or not, but I'm allowing for the greatest potential number of "possibilities" for an example of any other planet, anywhere, that has a magnetic field which can shield out radiation.
Can any genius here can come up with that example?
Google "extra-solar planets".
Other questions are how likely exoplanets are to possess moons and magnetospheres. No such moons and magnetospheres have yet been detected, but they may be fairly common.
HIP 13044b is the only planet that I can find to be located outside the Milky Way. Mercury, Saturn, and Jupiter have magnetospheres. So why are we wasting our time with Mars?
According to evolutionary theories, HIP 13044 was formed in another galaxy, and became part of the Milky Way.
IT IS IN THE MILKY WAY. OUR GALAXY.
Mars USED to have a magnetic shield. Any bacteria found on Mars today, would most likely have to be fossilized. Sifting for DNA in the Martian soil might be another story, but we've all already seen Jurassic Park, to know where that leads.
Europa a moon of Jupiter, has a magnetic field and oxygen atmosphere. THAT'S where we should be. I'll bet that THAT'S where the X-37B went.
Saturn, and Jupiter have magnetospheres - but they also have killing radiation which NASA is always being "surprised" about. Saturn and Jupiter also have NO SURFACE.
The only good reason to go to Mars would be if there actually were a library there, as Hoagland asserts. Looking for life in irradiated water is bullshit.
Europa has a surface. The oxygen there was initially created by radiation, I'll wager, BEFORE the full development of it's magnetosphere.
Europa's surface temperature averages about 110 K (−160 °C; −260 °F) at the equator and only 50 K (−220 °C; −370 °F) at the poles, keeping Europa's icy crust as hard as granite. The surface pressure of Europa's atmosphere is 0.1 μPa - almost non-existent. Gravity? Yes - humans need Gravity to live and Europa has next to nothing.
"ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT
ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE."
Yeah, screw it. FLICK NASA.
Am I wrong to equate the scientific value of anything coming out of Hoagland, Bara, or Johnston with that of a script from Irwin Allen's Lost in Space? After too many misspent hours looking into their nonsense I hardly think so. You have a great blog. It is a treasure trove to say the least.
You are pretty much on target there, maybe closer than you think. Most of the ideas these guys talk about come from science fiction stories/novels, movies, and TV shows. The ancient cities on Mars thing is straight out of Edgar Rice Burroughs. The Space Nazis on the Moon idea comes from a late 1940's children's book written by Robert Heinlein. And all the conspiracy nonsense is from The Invaders and the X Files. So not only is their work nonsense, it's derivative nonsense as well.
Hoagland is obsessed with the notion of sci fi writers being in on the conspiracy, yet he takes great offense at being refereed to as a science fiction adviser to Coast to Coast AM.
I wonder if the X-37B might actually rather have gone out to rendezvous with objects Elenin and YU55, and why didn't Hoagland jump on THAT bandwagon?
Spellcheck. Gott'a love it.
The "science fiction writers are in on it" meme is just Hoagland's way of explaining why his theories look so much like famous (and not so famous) works of science fiction. Since he can't admit he stole the ideas, the writers who actually came up with them become part of some vast and ancient conspiracy. In other words, he's using his lack of creativity as a virtue to lend credibility to his nonsense. Quite ingenious actually.
Why can't Hoagland just say that his books are science fiction? Not only would that take the wind out of your guys sails, then readers might say about him like he says about his favorite writers; that he's really in the know?
trained obs: glad you get something out of this boggery.
Hoagland can't call what he does science fiction because it's really bad science fiction. It only becomes semi-entertaining (as in marketable) if you add the element of "this could be true!!!!!" to it. Of course if you have a bent sense of humor like me, most of his stuff is entertaining in the "I can't believe he's trying to pawn this stuff off as real" kind of way.
Sometime back in the Apollo days, Hoagland had an L. Ron Hubbard moment and realized he wasn't going to make a lot of money as a commentator for real science so he decided to form his own conspiracy movement. He chose the Face on Mars as a starting point and a conspiracy was born and, as they say, the rest is history.
Unfortunately for Hoagland (and fortunately for the rest of us) he and Hubbard were not on the same pills. That's why he's a very minor player in the world of woo and not the founder of Hoagology.
Hubbard could be (with some pharmaceutical encouragement) quite industrious and creative during the "up" swings of his manic depression. Those bursts of energy were mistaken for genius, which gave him a charismatic quality that helped him generate a following. As long as his down periods were (mostly) kept from the faithful, he could maintain the appearance of the insightful leader his followers needed to worship.
Hoagland has none of that going for him. He can't write anything longer than a Power Point presentation and he can't even stand to talk to his own fans these days. He's just too lazy to be a real cult leader. That's nothing a serious psychological illness and a boat load of methamphetamines wouldn't cure.
I think the answer to the question: "Why not fiction?" is that Hoagland and company cannot sell their wares outside of the very forgiving and undemanding UFO subculture. If it were sold as fiction then plot, characterization, internal logic, and motivation would all have to conform to some accepted standard. There are no standards in the UFO subculture genre. I think practically anyone can cobble together enough nonsense from the Internet to create something that the Fantasy Prone and Easily Hoodwinked set (as opposed to their preferred title of Awake and Aware) will gladly consume while they fantasize about Disclosure.
I like your analysis T.O., however, while "plot, characterization, internal logic, and motivation" are quite necessary to an entertaining story, I disagree that there needs to be any accepted standard. Sci-fi, and/or, fantasy, is all about novel ideas. Perhaps it is the finest Science fiction that actually in fact is what establishes any accepted alternative standards.
The basic needs of story telling don't change with genre. Yes your story can have lots of strange and wonderful ideas, but if those ideas aren't presented in a logical way, you will lose your audience. Characters have to have motivation for their actions, the internal logic of the story has to be consistent, and there has to be a beginning, middle, and an end (though not necessarily in that order).
The idea is to give the readers a chance to suspend their disbelief long enough to get into the story. If characters start acting out of character, if the rules of your literary world change without warning, or if the story itself doesn't seem to have any logical flow, that suspension of disbelief disappears. That makes for very uninteresting reading.
Hoagland's work is so full of logical inconsistencies and institutions and people acting out of character that he had to come up with a phrase to cover his BS:"The lie is different at every level." The only thing that saves him is that he has a self selected group of gullible fans who will accept whatever rationalizations dear leader gives them. The typical group of science fiction fans would tear his work apart in short order.
a Vatican novel
Doubleday, May 1, 1996 - Fiction - 646 pages
"In Biblical times they would have called him a prophet," saidThe Dallas Morning Newsof Malachi Martin.The Houston Chronicledubbed him "one of the people most knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Vatican currently writing about the church." InWindswept House, this brilliant theologian and writer offers a gripping, provocative novel of faith and betrayal, power and conspiracy, within and without the walls of the Vatican. As the Cold War ends and the Soviet government collapses, a secret international association of political, religious, and financial leaders at last sees a clear path to a new world order--the establishment of a single global government and economy. Theirmodus operandi:taking control of the Roman Catholic Church by forcing the Pope's resignation and seizing power through a network of co-opted cardinals. Their perfect pawns: a pair of American brothers, one a lawyer and one a priest, scions of an old Texas family based at Windswept House, who will be placed as unknowing operatives within the Vatican. What the conspirators cannot know is that, while one brother will play along willingly, the other will become one of the Pope's closest allies--and that within their own ranks lies another, more secret group, with aims even more ambitious and deadly than their own. Complex and thrilling, set against a backdrop as broad as the world and as intimate as the most rarefied chambers of Vatican power and privilege,Windswept Houseis as vivid and immediate as today's headlines--and tomorrow's.
" I disagree that there needs to be any accepted standard. Sci-fi, and/or, fantasy, is all about novel ideas. "
I was talking about standards of execution rather than content. We have all encountered works of fiction where the writer may have had a good idea, but none of the tools to craft a passable story. The "made for SyFy channel" movies provide some good examples.
Good example of someone spinning their weirdness into fiction. Oddly enough, I cannot find the alleged Dallas Morning News quote about Martin anywhere other than where the book is being promoted. It isn't on the DMS website apparently. It makes you wonder about it and the Houston Chronicle quote.
Father Malachi Martin, PhD, a regular on Coast to Coast AM, passed away, July 27, 1999.
He was a scholar of the highest order, one of the finest gentlemen ever to serve God, and the best guest that Art Bell ever had.
Why are you here - and not at Bible Skule? Is it normal for Christians to be deceptive?
Why was Malachi Martin such a favorite guest of Art Bell's? As much as I admired and appreciated Fr Martin, as did Art, that doesn't mean that I necessarily ascribed to his point of view, or agreed entirely with his theology. I was raised Catholic, but now I go by the King James.
I came here because Storm Thor of Hoagland's facebutt page referred me here. I hang around because you guys are part of Hoagland's act.
I went to Hoagland's page because he gets more airtime on Coast than any other guest. I hung around there because he tried so hard to get rid of me. Coast to Coast is down to an audience of only about five million listeners now, but it's still the biggest media outlet for the pending, End Times Delusion.
Besides, it's no fun preaching to the choir.
Deceptive? Why should I be the only one to show my ID? Nobody else here does? Also, I enjoy providing bit of satire. If people don't have a sense of humor, and try to label that as deceptive, then they can just be laughed at instead of with.
Ironic how easy it is, to debunk the debunkers. You guys can't take the heat any more than Hoagland can. That's because you guys are as phony as he is. There is no real objectivity here at all. At least Pattacakes admits that he has an axe to grind.
You are really Trolling the Trollers. I disagreed with Manned Moon Landings - I stated that there were numerous Photo missions to the Moon in the 1960's. I was allowed to continue posting here! I think this OPEN Blog CAN take the heat.
Pattacakes can't very well ban anyone like Hoagland and Bara do to him, without losing the moral high ground. So, I get to show how Hoagland is right about NASA being full of shit, just as Pattacakes shows how full of shit Hoagland is. That ruins the entire game that Hoagland and NASA conspire together to run against tax payers and Christians.
God would have killed Stan long ago, rendering your statement moot.
This week financial news organization CNBC gave some mainstream attention to the largest money laundering and racketeering lawsuit in United States History, in which “Banksters” and their U.S. racketeering partners are being accused of laundering of 43 trillion dollars worth of ill gotten gains.
The lawsuit is said to involve officials located in the highest offices of government and the financial sector.
Since this information was surprisingly revealed by the mainstream news organization there has been a very suspicious and deadly fallout at the CNBC headquarters.
Within hours the original page for the article was taken down, and CNBC senior vice president Kevin Krim received news that his children were killed under very suspicious circumstances.
It seems that the murder happened first and then the page was removed later.
According to mainstream accounts the children’s nanny is responsible for the murders, allegedly stabbing both children.
However, those same mainstream news sources report the highly unlikely story that the nanny slit her own throat just after committing the homicides.
Just being a Conspiracy Loon - 43 Trillion could be spent on NASA, after all...
NASA won't see a dime. The money is already gone. If it goes to any Space program, it will be to a private one in Argentina.
No law firm would actually use the word, "banksters," however. This is bullshit that you created, Bioillogical Eunuch
Screenshots of CNBC running it.
Just like Expat said about 911 - he saw it on TV, end of story = IT WAS NOT FAKED!!
I can't even read that crap. Screenshots are as subject to fakery as are NASASS' images of Mars. "Banksters" isn't proper English grammar. It is not a term that a lawyer would write. How much horseshit can one Preston proliferate? You manufactured this hooey, same as usual.
As for whatever Pattacakes thinks he saw on TV, you haven't said, but that's the same source as the Dukes of Hazard.
You believe that CNBC made up the story "whole-cloth"?
That means you're an Anti-Semite! I will report you to the ADL.
As for whatever Pattacakes thinks he saw on TV, you haven't said
THE SAME DAMN THING all the Dumb Brainwashed Murkans believe!
I believe the Towers were emptied of people, drone attacks may have hit WTC 1 and 2, then they were demolished by Mid-Sized Underground Nukes.
I think you hacked CNBC, planted that bullshit, so they took it down. That's what.
The jet airliners that hit the towers were most likely on autopilot, programed remotely by Russians. If there were other explosives involved, the Russians planted them and detonated them. Russia's proxy, Usoma Bin Laden laughed at the useful idiots who believed in his invention of Wahhabi.
There are conventional explosives now, which are as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb.
The 9/11 Commission was indeed a cover up, because as usual, the Administration, irrespective of presiding party, does not wish to engage in a direct confrontation with Russia.
Just as Russia moved Saddam's WMD to the Bekaa Valley of Syrian occupied Lebanon. Now today, everybody just acts as if Syria some how naturally came up with the crap.
Yeah Expat...you bloody snob.
Hi Richard, wherever you are I hope you are well. I just had the misfortune of hearing you and Mike Bara getting "slagged off" by someone calling himself "Expat" on an episode of the podcast show TheParacast. "Expat", who I strongly suspect of being Richard Pattinson could barely put two words together as he sounded like he'd spent several hours in the local brewery. A typical BBC snob and a reminder of what I detest about the UK.
Yeah! Get told Expat! How dare you insult the fearless leaders of the clueless bookfacers with your vile personal attacks and complete lack of rationale or scientific evidence! You should be banned from the interweb, you drunk illiterate troll you.
Oh, and next time you decide to refer to the great pioneer of modern science, address him by his CORRECT name - that's DR Dick to you!
(I'd go for a gigantic facepalm, but I've used up all my energy laughing at these retarded fookwits)
(Ok Ok, so Hoagie might not be a doctor in the "official, academic" sense, like anyone could be - but he was Kronkite's right hand man 40 years ago for nasa don't you know! (or something?!) That's NASA!!! The equivalent to having like 8 doctorates... not to mention his single-handed re-writing of modern physics with his torsion wristwatch! Dr is too small a title in my opinion!)
What do we know about "Richard Patterson"?
Richard Pattison - isn't he that gay vampire from Twilight?!?!... (bara would have a field day with him)
Expat is Pestersum Nickels.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's most likely not a government liberty-stealing drone out to spy on you, but in fact a duck.
Bloody daft paranoid nutjobs always looking for some pattern that's not there because they're insecure and seeking a approval.
For those who still care about such things, the Hoagster will be on C2C for the first half tonight. Apparently he'll be talking about methane and such on Mars. He can't do the whole show because he has to get up early tomorrow for his day job as a greeter at Wallmart.
No one ratted me out yet?
One more thing. Since it appears to be a TBA situation, I'm guessing that Hoagie is just filling in for someone who canceled out. Of course he'd be available, what else does he have to do?
Bioillogical Eunuch is Expat.
An Invitation from George Noory
An Invitation from George Noory
November 01, 2012
An Invitation from George Noory
Would John Cooper like to take advantage of a unique opportunity to be a member of a live studio audience? We're looking for people who live in and around the Denver/Boulder area to be part of a live studio audience as we tape special episodes for a television show that I will host. If you're interested, please send me an email with your name and phone number to email@example.com. Hurry the audience spots will fill up fast!
"Biological Unit is Expat."
How about you Topher; are going to be on Noory TV?
Friday nights is always open lines, without a guest. Hoagland will serve subject to Noory's tolerance.
Bioillogical Eunuch is Expat.
I have no need to respond. No Cyberpolice have visited over my alleged hacking of CNBC.
Market Watch STILL runs story of $43 trillion lawsuit against US banks after CNBC erases their version following murder of CNBC executive's children.
If this is a hoax, it is a damned expensive one - they went so far as to hire someone to answer their phone "Spire Law Group." And a 900 page hoax - that is certainly not "phoning it in."
This could very well be "the story of the century."
Oh - and the Nanny was on SSRIs and then put in a "medically induced coma." Whoever the Nanny was, I'll bet she ain't her any more.
Is this the sort of thing Expat would post?
You keep all you ghosts neatly compartmentalized, Bioillogical Eunuch. Let's see you, Topher, and John Cooper, all sitting side by side, on George Noory's TV show.
Your search yielded no results
Wayback Machine doesn't have that page archived.
I don't know what this pdf is supposed to be, but it most certainly isn't a legal document. You don't put a press release in a complaint, and you don't get to demand a jury trial unless you are the defendant. Furthermore, nowhere does it say who the attorneys are, or even that the law firm is filing the complaint.
It's complete balderdash.
Female posters are among the most sinister elements in the Debunking community.
I am the poisonous butterfly, Misti is Queen rattlesnake ;)
Glitch.... I am the author of the previous post
James N. Fiedler, Managing Partner of Spire Law Group, LLP, stated: "It is hard for me to believe as a 47-year lawyer that our nation's guardians have been unwilling to stop this theft. Spire Law Group, LLP stands for the elimination of corruption and implementation of lawful strategies, and that is what we're doing here. Spire Law Group, LLP's charter is to not allow such corruption to go unanswered."
Comments were requested from the Attorney Generals' offices in NY, CA, NV, NH , OH, MA and the White House, but no comment was provided.
About Spire Law Group
Spire Law Group, LLP is a national law firm whose motto is "the public should be protected -- at all costs -- from corruption in whatever form it presents itself." The Firm is comprised of lawyers nationally with more than 250-years of experience in a span of matters ranging from representing large corporations and wealthy individuals, to also representing the masses. The Firm is at the front lines litigating against government officials, banks, defunct loan pools, and now the very offshore entities where the corruption was enabled and perpetrated.
Contact: James N. Fiedler877-438-8766 http://spire-law.com
SOURCE Spire Law Group, LLP
Copyright (C) 2012 PR Newswire. All rights reserved
Law firms don't have bar numbers. Only individual attorneys do.
Spire Law Group, LLP
Spire Law Group, LLP, California State Bar Registration Number 54393, is a national law firm with lawyers across the country.
Marjorie Ellen Reed - #54393
Current Status: Resigned
This member is resigned and may not practice law in California.
See below for more details.
The following information is from the official records of The State Bar of California.
Bar Number: 54393
Address: 8431 Valencia Dr
Huntington Beach, CA 92647 Phone Number: (714) 847-1557
Fax Number: Not Available
e-mail: Not Available
Undergraduate School: No Information Available;
District: District 4
Sections: None Law School: Western State Univ; CA
Effective Date Status Change
12/14/1972 Admitted to The State Bar of California
Explanation of member status
Actions Affecting Eligibility to Practice Law
Effective Date Description Case Number Resulting Status
Disciplinary and Related Actions
Overview of the attorney discipline system.
This member has no public record of discipline.
4/18/1999 Resignation, no charges pending Resigned
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That proves what??
Call them! Girlie-Man wants to expose me as a hacker fraud, making up a 900 page complaint for jollies...
Misti and Biological Unit.
You guys should get your own radio show. It would be hilarious.
You can start by calling Howard Stern. He'd love to have you on.
Can we get a platform align and get back on topic? Orbs,fantasy nuclear spaceships, and imaginary plastic sterilization gets very old, very fast. Thank you.
I second that.
Chris, I was just wondering yesterday whether Hoagland would be on to talk about the so-far negative results for methane. I didn't listen, but I can guess the highlights: There is methane, but it's been covered up; his prior assurances about Obama's "October surprise" about life on Mars will be minimized by either saying he didn't mean it for *sure* (shades of Elenin) or saying that it's evidence that the bad guys are even more powerful than he realized; and he's been seeing "stunningly artificial" artifacts in Curiosity's pictures. Use of the word "geometry" is optional.
I'll be writing up RCH's rubbish from last night later on today, after I can review it on Z Fire Light. It'll make a change from castigating Mike Bara.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
3 CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )
7 PLAINTIFF, )
8 VS. ) CASE NO. 11-MJ-02995
MITCHELL J. STEIN, ) LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
10 ) DECEMBER 19, 2011
) (3:35 P.M. TO 4:13 P.M.)
13 BAIL HEARING
14 BEFORE THE HONORABLE PATRICK J. WALSH
UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE
9 I'M NOT GOING TO PUT A COLLAR ON HIM BECAUSE UNLESS
10 AND UNTIL HE'S DISBARRED, HE CAN PRACTICE LAW. AND I DON'T
11 THINK I NEED TO RESTRICT HIM TO LOS ANGELES TO PRACTICE LAW.
12 HE CAN GO TO NEW YOUR AND THESE OTHER PLACES AND DO HIS
Michael J Stein is very smart, but he doesn't follow proper form and style in his legal documents. He's sort of the same as Hoagland, in that he inoculates the bad guys from justice, by using hyperbole instead of plain facts. Who will bother to go after those crooks, after Stein has already blown the case against them?
Mitchell J. Stein - #121750
Attorney Provided Information
Current Status: Not eligible to practice law (Not Entitled)
FILED DECEMBER 29, 2011
STATE BAR COURT OF CALIFORNIA
HEARING DEPARTMENT – LOS ANGELES
In the Matter of
MITCHELL J. STEIN,
Member No. 121750,
A Member of the State Bar.
ORDER OF INVOLUNTARY INACTIVE ENROLLMENT (Bus. & Prof. Code,
§ 6007, subd. (b)(2))
On November 23, 2011, the Office of the Chief Trial Counsel of the State Bar of California (State Bar) filed a motion seeking the involuntary inactive enrollment of attorney Mitchell J. Stein (Attorney Stein) under Business and Professions Code section 6007, subdivision (b)(2) and rules 5.180 et seq. of the Rules of Procedure of the State Bar. A copy of the motion was properly served by certified mail, return receipt requested, on November 23, 2011, on Attorney Stein and Erickson M. Davis, attorney Stein’s counsel in the underlying Superior Court action. Attorney Stein did not file a response to the State Bar’s motion, and the time for him to do so has now expired.
Attached to the State Bar’s motion is a copy of a superior court order assuming jurisdiction over Attorney Stein’s law practice, issued by Judge Jane L. Johnson on October 26, 2011, in In the Matter of the Assumption of Jurisdiction over the Law Practice of Mitchell J. Stein, dba Mitchell J. Stein and Associates, State Bar Membership No. 121750, Los Angeles County Superior Court, case No. LC094571. The superior court assumed jurisdiction over
- 2 -
Attorney Stein’s practice under Business and Professions Code section 6190 et seq. The superior court’s order does not provide for any exceptions to the court’s assumption of jurisdiction over Attorney Stein’s practice.
The court finds that the evidence clearly and convincingly shows that an order involuntarily enrolling Attorney Stein as an inactive member of the State Bar of California is appropriate under Business and Professions Code section 6007, subdivision (b)(2). (Rules Proc. of State Bar, rule 5.182(A).)
The court orders that the State Bar’s November 23, 2011 motion for involuntary inactive enrollment is GRANTED. Accordingly, the court further orders that Attorney Mitchell J. Stein be involuntarily enrolled as an inactive member of the State Bar of California (Bus. & Prof. Code, § 6007, subd. (b)(2)) effective three days after service of this order by mail (Rules Proc. of State Bar, rule 5.184.)
Dated: January _____, 2012
RICHARD A. HONN
Judge of the State Bar Court
Stein has NOT been disbarred.
I've deleted NOTHING -- yet. I'm seriously thinking about it, however. This material is not offensive but it's monstrously boring.
A meta tag on the webpage for The Spire Law Group, LLP, publishes the bar number of a retired attorney who otherwise would eligible to practice law. The firm likely has obtained her permission to do so. Associates, might perhaps be able to work out of state, by petition to the courts of other states, or Federal courts, under such veneer.
Right Click: 'View Page Source'
>meta name="description" content="Spire Law Group, LLP, California State Bar Registration Number 54393, is a national law firm with lawyers across the country<
NASA is wrong, misleading, and down right lies all the time, but Hoagland exaggerates their dirty deeds to the point, that nobody believes. That's why they pay him the big bucks.
To try and belittle Hoagland, accomplishes the same thing for Hoagland, that Hoagland does for NASA.
Not only boring in the extreme, quite off topic as well, Miti, did you ever think that no one aside from you cares about the guppage you are posting?
Perfectly ON topic; illustrating how you guys cover for Hoagland the way Hoagland covers for NASA.
I see where Mike is fantasizing (on twitter) about marrying Ann Coulter. That would give a whole new meaning to "battle of the sexes," I think.
To quote Austin Powers: "She's a man, baby!"
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