Thursday, May 10, 2012

Hoagland rejects the WISE catalog

        Congratulations to Esteban Navarro Galán, occasional commenter to this blog, for getting Richard Hoagland to actually answer a question on Fuckbook yesterday. He drew Hoagland's attention to the fact that the WISE catalog of IR sources is now published, and it's a notable FAIL for hyperdimensional physics since WISE did not find the very large object that Hoagland & Bara say is essential to the theory ("Dark Mission," ch.2.) Hoagland's only way out of this dilemma was to summarily reject the catalog, as the suspect product of a "government agency"—he uses that term as if it really meant "gang of ignorant thugs." Here's his reply:
How do we have ANY way of knowing if these newly-released WISE survey results are "complete?"

Since these findings are held in VERY limited hands (as usual ...), the abiltiy [sic] to just "forget" to post confirmation of such an object (or, objects) DEEP in the outer solar system -- especially, if it would TOTALLY UPSET the current Physics paradigm, as Mike Bara and I reported in "Dark Mission" -- would be all-too-easy! :(

Further, how does the WISE Team now "explain away" the far earlier IRAS (Infrared Astronomical Telescope) discovery of PRECISELY such a mysterious object, in 1983 ... and its PUBLIC acknowledgement in an interview that key NASA scientist granted to the Washington Post and my old friend, Tom O'Toole, who was then their science correspondent?

Or, do you believe EVERYTHING a goverment [sic] agency says these days ... or ... that is now dutifully "reported as news" by the mainstream media? :)
        Galán has not so far posted a reply, but if I was not banned from the page this is what I would write (and in fact have already e-mailed to Hoagland, although the chance that he'll read it is very small):

Yesterday on your Facebook page, Esteban Navarro Galán asked if the recently-released WISE catalog posed a problem for the theory of hyperdimensional physics. You replied suggesting that it would have been "all-too-easy" for the compilers of the catalog to have simply omitted the discovery of a large outer planet, and asking how the WISE team would explain this report from 1983.

The WISE catalog includes more than half a billion objects and its 18,000 images are now available for scrutiny by anyone with sufficient knowledge and equipment. The following scientific agencies were intimately involved in the data processing:

  • Infrared and Processing Analysis Center at CalTech - Primary data analysis
  • JPL - Mission management
  • NASA Science Directorate, Washington
  • NASA Goddard

I draw your attention to the certain fact that responsibility for the primary data analysis fell, not on a government agency as you stated, but on a scientific institution whose record of achievement is world renowned. I don't know the total number of individuals involved in the preparation of the WISE catalog, but it would surely be several hundred spread among the four institutions listed above. I suppose you're entitled to describe that group as "limited," but your bizarre suggestion that the group engaged in dishonesty is an outrageous insult to people who dedicated 14 years of their lives to this project. The idea that it would have been very easy for this catalog to have deliberately omitted one of the primary presumptive targets of the mission is simply laughable. You have no chance whatever of convincing anyone with knowledge of how space science is conducted that what you allege actually took place.

I can't speak for the WISE scientists, but I know how I would "explain away" the 20-year old Washington Post article. I would explain as follows:

The "key NASA scientist" of whom you write was Dr. Gerry Neugebauer of IRAS. James Houck was also mentioned in the piece as not being sure what this object was.

Please look at the list of authors of the following letter to J. Astrophys:

Unidentified IRAS sources - Ultrahigh-luminosity galaxies
Houck, J.R., Schneider, D. P., Danielson, G.E., Neugebauer, G., Soifer, B.T., Beichman, C. A., Lonsdale, C. J.

Astrophysical Journal, Part 2 - Letters to the Editor (ISSN 0004-637X), vol. 290, March 1, 1985, p. L5-L8

Optical imaging and spectroscopy measurements were obtained for six of the high galactic latitude infrared sources reported by Houck, et al. (1984) from the IRAS survey to have no obvious optical counterparts on the POSS prints. All are identified with visually faint galaxies that have total luminosities in the range 5 x 10 to the 11th power stellar luminosity to 5 x 10 to the 12th power stellar luminosity. This luminosity emerges virtually entirely in the infrared.

Since you are not  yourself a scientist (notwithstanding your claims) you may perhaps need this to be interpreted in layman's terms. It says WE HAD A CLOSER LOOK AND ALL THE ANOMALOUS OBJECTS TURNED OUT TO BE GALAXIES.

I would like to add that you are in a poor position to accuse Esteban Navarro Galán of credulousness, since you apparently believe:

- A 20-year-old story from the Washington Post that was thoroughly discredited two years later

- Maurice Allais' anomalous paraconical pendulum results, despite the fact that they have never been successfully repeated.

- Bruce DePalma's garage experiment with a spinning ball as evidence of anti-gravity, despite the fact that a conventional explanation (The Magnus Effect) is available and is far more conservative.

- Over-unity energy claims by Thomas Bearden and John Searl, despite that fact that neither has ever been able to demonstrate their "machines" in public.

You have once again done your reputation no service by your rejection of a valid and important piece of scientific research, and your accusation of fraud without a shred of supporting evidence. You need to accept that HD physics has been falsified.

Esteban Navarro Galán has now responded on FB, citing answer #3 in this astrobiology FAQ.


Binaryspellbook said...

Fantastic questions by Esteban on Hoagland's facebook page. As with Expat, I would like a couple of questions answered too. Hoagland has stated unequivocally on several occasions that the propagation of a torsion field is ONE BILLION times faster than that of light. Mathematical proof please "Dr" Hoagland. Hoaxland also maintains that the changing physics is responsible for the planet wide increase "conciousness". Proof please. He also claims that HD physics is based on Maxwell's original quaternions. Which set of quaternions "Prof" Hoagland. Derive your proof please. Show us the particular solution that reveals HD physics.

Jiminy Oddbird said...

It is quite possible that some data could easily have been omitted from such a large compilation.

What is the speed of thought and does it equate to the speed of transmission of neurotransmitters?

expat said...

>>It is quite possible that some data could easily have been omitted from such a large compilation.<<

Possibly, but CERTAINLY NOT a huge body like Hoagland & Bara say the HD physics requires. Remind yourself of how huge by reading this blog-post:

Jiminy Oddbird said...

Mark McLaughlin
where can I find the mathematics underlying hyperdimensional torsion field physics?
7 hours ago

Charlie Linville ‎

.....yet each of the constituent fields is of an undulatory character, consisting of of a simple wave-disturbance propagated with uniform velocity......
3 hours ago via mobile · 1

Mark McLaughlin

at what velocity?
3 hours ago

Richard C. Hoagland


Try this--

22 minutes ago

Jiminy Oddbird said...

Einstein, Cartan and Evans –
Start of a New Age in Physics?

Horst Eckardt,
Munich, Germany
Laurence G. Felker,
Reno, Nevada, USA

[original German article to be published online at:]


Although physicists have struggled in vain for over a half-century to encompass all natural
forces within a unified theory, chemical physicist Myron W. Evans has now succeeded.
Based on the fundamental insights of Albert Einstein and Elie Cartan, Evans’ theory takes
the geometry of space-time itself as the origin of all forces of Nature. As Einstein attributed
gravitation to the curvature of space-time, the new theory attributes electromagnetism to the
torsion or twisting of space-time. The possibility of reciprocal interactions between gravitation
and electromagnetism -- which possibility is denied in current mainstream physics -- leads to
predictions of new physical effects which could be used to produce power and energy from

Jiminy Oddbird said...

Evans in 1992 was able to derive the IFE directly from first principles (generallycovariant
unified field theory, which includes general relativity), and thereby inferred the
existence of a previously unknown magnetic field component -- the B(3) field.
B(3) is, informally, a general-relativistic correction to classical electrodynamics, somewhat
analogous to the general-relativistic correction to Newtonian gravitation needed to explain
the perihelion-advance of Mercury.
The index numbers – (1), (2) and (3) -- here refer to the so-called circular basis; and the
polarization directions B(1) and B(2) refer to the directions of transverse polarization of the
field. Thus a polarization index must be inserted into the Maxwell equations. This polarization
index corresponds to the tetrad vectors qa in Fig. 2. Finally, this leads Evans to postulate
that the geometrical representation of the electromagnetic vector-potential A should be a
Aa = A(0) qa
where A is the 4x4-matrix of the complete electromagnetic potential, and A(0) is a
proportionality factor. The electric and magnetic fields (combined into the tensor Fa of the
total electromagnetic field) then emerge directly from Cartan’s expression for the torsion Ta:
Fa = A(0) Ta
In this formalism, electrodynamics is completely attributed to the geometrical torsion of
space-time. The complete picture, unifying electromagnetism with gravitation, requires both
Riemann curvature and Cartan torsion. The intrinsic curvature determines gravitation, and
the extrinsic curvature (i.e., torsion) determines the electromagnetic field. This is described in
detail by suitable field equations in form of Riemann-Cartan geometry. This theory is now
called Einstein-Cartan-Evans (ECE) theory, after the names of its principal authors.

Chris Lopes said...

Hoagland's stance on WISE can hardly be surprising to anyone who knows his history. He's the master of the unfalsifiable hypothesis. If NASA data confirms his theory (or even looks a little like it does) then the data is real. If it doesn't, obviously mysterious forces are trying to keep him and Bara from the Nobel Prize they so richly deserve. Hoagland isn't wrong, it's just that reality is such a buzz kill.

P.S. Congrats Esteban, for getting Hoagland to actually answer a question.

strahlungsamt said...

OWWW! My eyes hurt after trying to read that astralnewz page. What is it with pseudo scientists and bad web design. Hoagie's site is like a work of art next to some sites I've seen. Robin's site is another nightmare.

I shouldn't really say anything. At least when I see bad design I think nutjobs and move on. The real danger is when they clean up their acts and start targeting the mainstream.

That German link is to another bunch of goofballs. They have professional web design skills and they look professional but they're not. They're just another bunch of free-energy promoters.
(I speak German BTW)

As in:
1. There's no such thing as free-energy. It's proven physics.
2. If you send them money they'll send you instructions.

Biological_Unit said...

“It is the thunderbolt that steers the universe,” wrote the Greek philosopher Heraclitus.

The Earth spins on a free-energy motor obviously, but nonetheless I won't recommend anything sells.

Jiminy Oddbird said...

Ben Franklin had it right in the first place, flying a kite during a lightning storm. The Ionisphere if full of more free energy than a type 1 civilization could use.

Perhaps the Kardashev scale might be useful in measuring material manifestations of HDP?

Jiminy Oddbird said...

I wonder if the Ionisphere could be used to ignight all of the hydrogen contained in the sea?

Jiminy Oddbird said...

Science is based upon testable theories proving a result which can be validated through replication by independant researchers, so I guess that little experiment could only be repeated if it doesn't work?

Jiminy Oddbird said...

Joel Reeves Hello richard.You gonna be on coast to coast when you get back from egypt?
2 hours ago
Richard C. Hoagland Joel,

And, hopefully in the next few days ... BEFORE we go. :)

Will also be doing an hour-long, MAJOR web television show next week, dedicated to our "Venus Transit Expedition" and the SOlar Eclipse.

Will be posting details here (and on Enterprise) soon .... :)
30 minutes ago · 1

Jiminy Oddbird said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jiminy Oddbird said...

don't disappoint them ...

everybody loves you when you're easy

everybody hates when you're a bore

everyone is waiting for your entrance

so don't disappoint them

Esteban Navarro said...

"inexplicably remains in his FB,(My messages) I meant to say...

Sorry, I´m still shocked...

Go ahead, laugh, laugh, Misti ;)

Esteban Navarro said...

Oh my…Wow! I just can not belive my eyes when I opened your blog an hour ago, to comment that Hoagland answered me in Facebook last days and…Wow!! My name on a post of “ The emoluments..”!!!, I almost fell out of my ass…

I wish I had your links myself on Thursday when I answered Hoagland !. Anyway, I think he´s about to banning me, he deleted all my first messages, then decided to answer slippery and condescendingly, like the guru he pretended to be.. (I almost could read between the lines: “I Know YOU ALREADY KNOW THE TRICK in the Image Enhancements, Esteban, PLEASE don´t show to the audience”…) ... He deleted several posts with the comands in his famous “Image Enhacements”on Mitchell on the moon and now in The face on mars, The same pathétics PS Tricks I check personally , but others, inexplicably remains. He started to answer in another thread when I wrote "Never a straight answer.." asking for time to check his files in order to answer scientifically.. (in the April 14th thread) that he erased in three minutes. Other questions lasted even less…

Take a look, in my costumary - usual - orthopedic english:

“I´m sorry , Mr Hoagland, but if you go to delete my legitimate questions unanswered, unless they´re a little bit unaproppiated, but with sense of humor also, I have to say I ´ve got nothing against you,belive me, in fact, i think you perfectly staged all your followers are willing to hear, you´re usefull to them in a symbolic way, you´re at their service, an you do the job properly, as current Studies in anthropology says ´bout ufological cults , or any cult.The only thing I suggest , for more plausability of yours, is that the trick is not to be seen, or criminalizing honest people that have nothing to do with all this mess.Buzz Aldrin hit a crazy pal once.Imagine another idiot entering in the Kennedy Space Center, or in ESA with a bomb Belt, due to your conspiranoic discusse and arguments.I know, I´m exagerating but …imagine. I Know you like Hollywood Sci- Fy movies, as I do. Remember the blonde bad guy in Robert Zemekis´ “Contact”?”

I gave him another Links , as how the University of Barcelona studied in religious Anthropology his New –Age, ufologist -acuarious age – discipline: . Deleted.
Field Studies and resources about UFO cult: .Deleted

He deleted all in exactly one minute .No wonder. Another messages lasted even less, like this other: , No surprise. I admit it´s rude, but …It was just ´bout his request of money to his holly peregrination. Because that´s what it is, no science at all.At all. I hate he criminalizes all responsible for science and Tecnological Knowledge around the World, already mistreated by our governements ridiculous budgets .Enough is enough.

I don´t think I can be too long bullshit a bullshitter.

I´m very honored , Expat, I mean serious. I don´t deserve , really. I'm just a pretentious comic book “artist”. I'm going right now to enjoy and savor a glass of Rioja (Crianza ) to your health. And to yours ,Chris… and all the people around here! You can cheer with a beer, Misti , BU, you Know I´m kidding ;)


expat said...

That's funny, Esteban. Hoagland's choices of which of your posts to delete and which to allow seem pretty random.

Did I understand you right, that you're from Extremadura? No wonder you're a persistent bastard, like me. I traveled in Extremadura about ten years ago, in the middle of a hot summer. For those who don't know, the province gets its name from the extremity of its environment. As far as I could tell, it's an infertile wasteland, its inhabitants preferentially selected for durability in the face of hardship and periodic famine. Suspicious of softies passing through from more hospitable environments, they'll only engage in very brief conversation before returning to their favorite wine.

Am I right?

Jiminy Oddbird said...

What does the name Esteban mean in the first place? Sounds like someone just asking to be blocked.

I would suggest trying again, with a new facebook account and different name. Be sure to use a new web based email account, as if you attempt to sign up two accounts with the same email, it won't be allowed.

You had good results with Hoagland, Esteban. Live and learn. He has no sense of humor. Don't joke around until you're ready to be banned. He will give anyone new a bit of slack, and try to answer their questions until they turn him off.

The trick is in trapping him with seemingly safe questions, only to drop the other shoe, further down the tread, after carefully setting him up.

Esteban Navarro said...

Ha, ha, ha ....Yes , it´s strange…The Ka-Ching ´Shania Twain video still there but…I just don’t Know…. You´ve been seeing my tricks with “lovely” Karen Trujillo, haven´t you?You´re a fucking naughty little devil…!!!... I still find in her a beautiful person, I mean serious, she seems pestle , magical but charming ,Dont you agree ¿ ;) “the extremity of its environment. As far as I could tell, it's an infertile wasteland, its inhabitants preferentially selected for durability in the face of hardship and periodic famine” Oh , no , no no …That´s a fucking topic, a stereotipic cliché…

The summers and winter are hellish in Extremadura, but I spend my holidays there as long as there have rivers and “gorges” of icy water (You Know , like in “127 Hours” ,with the two girls, before the guy screw up the whole thing, you have to excuse me, I can only properly speak through films and music ,), even in summer, 40 gº,the water is icy, I swear, like in "El Cabrero " village and its famous Cherry Blossoms in the mythical" Valle del Jerte. "

The name of Extremadura is actually due to the edges of their temperatures, and its elements,you´r right, as always, but in fact, its also its´geographic situation due to its border with Portugal, absolutely conventional, as you understand, what give the name to the land since XV century. I wish I could personally show to you! It is very beautiful to see. Deeply beatiful, indeed.Belive me. Look at that:
Yes, I'm extremeñian, from Plasencia, Cáceres City of the North, Near Salamanca. I just live in Madrid because me and my wife are working here (Until the crisis permitted)

Esteban Navarro said...

she´s also Extremenian, although our daughter was born here in Madrid ..

But In the middle of that land there´s" Las Hurdes" , that are not like Luis Buñuel portrayed in his famous movie over a hundred years ago anymore , now "enjoy" satellite television, or any small perks that Paris posseses: From shopping bags- Lady-pret a portér to restaurants with a wiev of the mountains . Beautiful views, by the way:

It's a beatiful land to see and eat, and drink. Sometimes it seems Castilla or, Catalonia , sometimes even Scothland, actually, but his "extreme" fame remains in force .. Sure you saw it all, Expat? I mean, has immenses forests ... to the south, to Badajoz, that is suddenly very dry and desertic, it is true, but then we came to fertile Mérida. Roman "Emerita Augusta" city that Russell Crow's character said to come in Riddley Scotts´"Gladiator"... Do you remember his hand on wheat and the scapes of green cypresses, olives , vines ...? I must say that Hollywood is documented much better than Hoagland, sometimes, seriously… (LOL)

There is a great wine there: It's called "Lar de Barros" .Sure you Know.. It's delicious, Also "Tentudía"is good and the " Pitarra “ …”Espalda de cristo”, specially…Oh, that´´s something, expat!... impressive. Very strong, though.

But then, on the border with Andalucía, you know, Córdoba, Huelva, Jaén, etc, everything changes again, and you can hear the thunderous sound of cicadas in summer, you can suppose that suddenly you should be in Morocco or New Mexico or Arizona or something , and again the freshness of the beach a little further into Granada or Almería, o Cádiz! … “Zahara de los atunes”! When I was there one summer I picture myself in that Tahiti bay in “Mutiny on the Bounty “, very close picture in Alicante´s San Juan beach, or even in the little islands near there you can go in ferry…
But , forgive me, This is becoming a tourist guide….

I´m not sure I understand your final sentence…( My fucking english!) I dont know how to take it…It´s ironic I supose…I just have a little time with this thing and then draw back, which is my job …(¿??)

Esteban Navarro said...

Esteban means "Steven " in English, Misti...It´s not true what Tarantino hints in "Pulp Fiction" with "Esperanza Villalobos". Not every spanish names mean something. Our names are the same “shit” as yours. You Know, Saints and that kind of things.

Ahá.Thanks for your advice . I note, Misti, thanks. Are you Trolling around, didn´t you?


expat said...

Gracias, Esteban, I enjoyed the information. My description of Extremadura was "exaggeration for effect."

A wine called Marqués de Caceres sells well here. It comes in rioja, blanco and rosado.

Now, how are we going to get Hoagland to understand that a 25 year old article in the Washington Post has been completely and utterly falsified?

Chris Lopes said...

I'm sure Hoagland actually understands that (though Bara probably doesn't), it's just that he's counting on his audience not to. One wonders how many of the people donating to his cause would do so if they understood just how little he thinks of them.

Yup, you are in danger of being shown the door over there. One does not ask real questions of "The Big Man" and live to tell the tale. I'm amazed though that with all the planing for the trip, and putting the book together, he still has time to play hall monitor on that page. You'd think such a busy man would not be wasting the daylight hours on such trivial tasks as FB page editing.

Esteban Navarro said...

Yes, Expat, is a great Rioja!, only the name has something to do with Extremadura, although the Grenache grape, also sometimes extremeñian grapes goes there ...... is really great . ¿Only Rosado or White? Oh expat , you have to taste red, expecially “Gran reserva” … Please,forgive my little missunderstandin´with your joking style..

I completely agree with Chris. That man, despite that i believe he depends on and get credit to his own fantasies , in a sort of necessary self-deception and recurrent , he doen´t want to be scientific at all, moreover, should not be, because that would be fatal to his speech, installed in another line of discourse, in the spiritual -supermarket and vulgarized cross-overs scienciologist-new -age sources….He does what his followers claim to do, with a little bit of geriatric charisma, and so…

Anyway, White light doesn´t decomposed trough a crystal that way at all, damn it !! ;)
But I acknowledge that I'm a little sorry for him, it's like trolling the mass of an evangelista pastor or so ... Well ,as a famous scientologist says, (Tom Cruise) let´s take one more shot, just for fun…

George Carlin is right, as Socrates, is a matter of education….

jourget said...


I'm picking up the sarcasm in your "busy man" comment, but I think Hoagland's less a man on a mission and more the opportunist all of us know he is. He's mentioned a desire to get to Egypt to take his measurements near the pyramids at least as long ago as his trip to Amsterdam in April of 2011. He didn't connect it to the Venus transit at that time, just made a quick I'm-joking-but-not-really comment about wanting to go and asked if anyone had a spare airline ticket.

In short, the transit is a nice little pin to hang his desire for a vacation on. He certainly won't give any money back, and will most likely say that viable "research" can still be performed whether there's a transit going on or not.

On the book front, expat's prior research does suggest that he may have been tinkering with it for at least a decade, and is just waiting for the day his editors get drunk enough to accidentally give it a pass.

Chris Lopes said...

He may well have been "working" on the book for a decade or so, but that doesn't mean he's made any progress. This is a guy who couldn't put together more than 2 books in 40 years of "research". Even his return to paper writing isn't anything more than a compilation of material from other papers with a pile for money thrown in.

So I am reluctant to believe that any such book is really on the way. He might have managed an outline, but an actual book with actual (readable) chapters sounds like a stretch. I think that's why he's in begging mode right now: his publisher isn't willing to part with any real money until he sees a real book.

Jiminy Oddbird said...

Richard C. Hoagland
5 hours ago

We are here in Boulder, at the studios of Gaiam TV! In 2 hours you can watch the amazing, live broadcast with Richard C. Hoagland and journalist/filmmaker Jay Weidner.

Explore the truth about 2012 and the destiny of humanity.

This Sunday, a rare solar eclipse will take place, followed by a lunar eclipse and the Transit of Venus. Could these reveal the secrets of 2012? I’ll be examining the significance of these historic events tomorrow, Wednesday, May 16th at 7pm ET with exclusive FREE interview on Gaiam TV. Watch it here:

Only brings you cutting-edge, thought-provoking, mind-expanding videos.

Remember - you all can join Richard's LIVE, interactive interview today, May 16th, at 7 pm ET on!
Make sure to RSVP:

(image) Richard C. Hoagland with filmmaker Jay Weidner

Chris Lopes said...

And it's free?! Wow, how lucky can one group of carbon based life forms get?

Anonymous said...

I decided not to tune in to Hoagie's interview on yoga tv - did I miss anything amazing and groundbreaking, as per every other interview? I read there is a replay on the 18th, should I commence a countdown until the moment to tune in?

Seeing Weidner on the bill is another put off: I enjoyed his presentation of Kubrick's Odyssey Part 1, but I'd enjoy him more if he didn't end every single sentence with the words "and thats why Stanley is the greatest film maker and director ever and the greatest artist ever and the most amazing person ever in the world and history to exist ever and ever". The Weidner/Kubrick jerk-fest is worse than the disciples-n-Hoagie one.

expat said...

"It's free" only in the sense that you have to subscribe -- complete with valid credit card # -- then cancel within 10 days and trust that Gaiam TV won't charge you.

No thanks. I was working at the time yesterday anyway.

Chris Lopes said...

Give someone associated with Hoagland my credit card #? Hey why don't I just mail them my wallet while I'm at it?