Thursday, March 19, 2020

No, SARS-CoV-2 was not deliberately created for population control

« Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus. »

« [T]he high-affinity binding of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to human ACE2 is most likely the result of natural selection on a human or human-like ACE2 that permits another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation. »

        The above are direct quotes from a letter published in Nature Medicine on 17th March, two days ago. The title is The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2, and the authors are Kristian G. Andersen1, Andrew Rambaut2, W. Ian Lipkin3, Edward C. Holmes4, and Robert F. Garry5.

1. Department of Immunology and Microbiology, The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, CA, USA
2. Institute of Evolutionary Biology, University of Edinburgh, Edinburgh, UK
3. Center for Infection and Immunity, Mailman School of Public Health of Columbia University, New York, NY, USA
4. Marie Bashir Institute for Infectious Diseases and Biosecurity, School of Life and Environmental Sciences and School of Medical Sciences, The University of Sydney, Sydney, Australia
5. Tulane University, School of Medicine, Department of Microbiology and Immunology, New Orleans, LA, USA

        Anyone who still believes that this virus is a product of conspiracy to reduce or "cull" the human population is invited to Read the fucking article.


Two Percent said...

Awww Geee! Thanks expat... a whole thread in my honour. 😂

I haven’t read the whole fucking article yet, but I have skimmed it. I’m immediately reminded of the obviously jacked up fantasy articles authored by Zdenek P. Bazant, expounding the new fantasy theory of “crush up” and other undiluted BS, to explain how the WTC towers could be crushed entirely to the ground in 12-13 seconds by unaided structural collapse.

For example:

It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus. As noted above, the RBD of SARS-CoV-2 is optimized for binding to human ACE2 with an efficient solution different from those previously predicted7,11.

So fucking what? Nobody predicted it. Proves absolutely squat. All the more evidence that it could have been engineered.

Improbable is merely an opinion, and again, proves zip. Still leave possible wide open enough to fly a jumbo into the Pentagon. It wasn’t a jumbo?? No kidding.

Obviously, the same process of he said, she said. Smoke and Mirrors. Plausible Deniability.

Again, the Truth will never out.

Nothing to see here.

Dee said...

Will all due respect but there are some issues with the stated claims from various logical, linguistic, rhetorical and historical perspectives. Which is not likely the field of any of the authors and therefore some shortcomings can be expected.

Note that I don't believe currently in any conspiracy theory surrounding the origins or spread of the virus. But I'm interested in the process of reasoning, as usual.

Let me try to pick a few elements apart:

- demonstrating lack of genetic "construct" or "manipulation" does not address at all the myriad of possibilities of intent, breeding and experimentation. Guided and unguided genetic experiments were done centuries before these labs and are continuing as we speak. Please appreciate the full meaning of both "natural selection" and "genetic engineering".

- it should be assumed that any supposedly "evil" attempt to create a virus like this would likely include attempts to cloak its origin. This is not addressed sufficiently simply because only few, if any scientists are actually working on that topic. This is why it's reasonable to assume the authors do not have any sufficient background to broaden the meaning of their claim in such a way to include all possible research and test methods available to some secret research lab.

- Quote from Scripps: "If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness". This is a classic example of "mind reading". It's near meaningless to guess what such an engineer would think or which methods would be developed in that context while remaining fact based. It's informed conjecture at best.

- They also claim here that if scientists had deliberately engineered this virus, they wouldn't have chosen mutations that computer models suggest won't work. Another classic case of guessing how other fictive evil scientists might have worked and thought things out while it's simply a fact that these authors do not have the means to know or have experience with engineering viruses with such "evil" aims. So again it's rather close to full conjecture.

While I appreciate the intention of the authors to address the rumors and conspiracy theories, in my view they are leaving too often the realms of hard science (which means knowing a lot about a little with some authority) and end up venturing into speculative arguments on why it "could not be done" by anyone else.

Two Percent said...

Hear, Hear Dee.

Most eloquently put.

Two Percent said...

JFTR, expat,

I did suggest that the virus was not necessarily engineered by humans, and no one can rule out this possibility.

If you read the Bible, there is much talk about God sending plagues upon selected groups of humans.

"The fucking article" would therefore be relatively fucking meaningless.

Or are you of the mind that God does not exist? Or that the Bible is merely an elaborate fantasy? Huh! I almost wish it was, as God has no sympathy for the dead wood of the tree of humankind, and is right into summarily "cutting it off"!

Could be true. Could be for population reduction.

I say it is, but that's merely my opinion, of course.

expat said...

« If you read the Bible, there is much talk about God sending plagues upon selected groups of humans. »

There's much talk about virgin birth, too, but I don't have to believe it do I?

Anonymous said...


Never argue with a true believer Expat. Waste of time.

The galactic overlord Xenu will make sure two percent's Thetan soul will never reincarnate, and his miserable existence will end with this embodiment.

Nothing but love

Two Percent said...

"There's much talk about virgin birth, too, but I don't have to believe it do I?"

Of course, you don't have to believe anything. But we have IVF and the like (artificial insemination of cows, for example), which therefore in each exclusive case (i.e. nothing but AI), are all virgins giving birth. So, I believe in virgin birth, and the fact that it's a big deal in the Bible makes no difference to me. If the cows were smarter, they would probably be discussing it ad infinitum too. But if you prefer to limit your thinking to "only us humans are that smart, and alone in the Universe", you go for it! That's your belief. I guess you are a true believer!

@anonymous sigher:

Of course, what you say applies equally to both parties...

As for L. Ron Hubbard - wasn't he a great nuclear scientist or something? Ohh, maybe not:
'His university records indicate that his exposure to "nuclear physics" consisted of one class in "atomic and molecular phenomena" for which he earned an "F" grade.[333]'

A lot has been written about him, and he claimed a lot more, but does that make it true?

He ended his life in a luxury motorhome in California. Rich Trailer Trash? Maybe he was wealthy, but sounds like a miserable life to me. His Scientology portrait speaks volumes, to me anyway, even if he did achieve so much more in his life than most of us ever will.

Trump has achieved too. Looks like he's now going to achieve the elimination of America's old, weak and poor, and many more. And the devastation of the US economy. Looks like my American friends won't be returning to summer back home, this year.

Anonymous said...

"even if he did achieve so much more in his life than most of us ever will."

Yeah, with Jack Parsons money and wife.

purpleivan said...

"If you read the Bible, there is much talk about God sending plagues upon selected groups of humans."

So this time round the "selected groups" are the elderly, those with serious medical conditions, the poor (who are more likely to try to continue working due to financial situation, so have greater risk of exposure) and the medical workers who try to help them.

Hand of god at work... no, no, just not seeing it, nor that of anyone/thing else, other than a naturally occuring virus.

expat said...

From the lost book of Alban, ch. 11:

8. And the Lord said unto Joseph, "Put not thy todger into the snatch of thy wife, for she is a virgyn and it is a syn.

9. Wank thyself off into this neoprene turkey baster, and thus let thy cum flow into her womb.

10. And lo, Joseph wanketh as the Lord did command, and much was the flow of cum, for his bollocks were full.

11. Mary teareth off her knickers and let the cum flow into her womb as the Lord did command, and thus was the prophecy fulfilled.

Two Percent said...


No, no, my friend. You’re just not seeing it. To see, you need to open your eyes first.

So this time round the "selected groups" are the elderly, those with …

The “selected group” in this case is the entire world population, including, evidently, a few dogs. If you open your eyes and look at the John Hopkins site, you’ll see it’s now officially in almost every country on the planet.

other than a naturally occurring virus.

Naive, my friend. Just do a little research into bioweapons development, and the treaties that are supposed to restrain countries from continuing such developments. You might find the accidental Russian release of Anthrax spores of interest. Caused by the incorrect installation of air filters on the day in question. Yet, the world knows about Anthrax, so why would the Russians need to be opening samples of it? Just for a sniff? And that was many years ago.

2% said...


Was they already married? Why then a syn?

The whole idea was to remain a virgin until you were married, when it was game on.

Are you losing it, ole chap?

Anonymous said...

Technically Joseph and Mary were married before god knocked her up.

So regarding the whole adultery thing, god is more of a "do as say, not as I do"

kinda guy.

chrisl said...

Expat, 2% is a close friend of Karen's.

expat said...

I have saved 2% from himself, by disallowing a comment that sought to extend the Jospeh/Mary joke WAY beyond its natural life.

THE said...

According to documents obtained by The Mail on Sunday, scientists there experimented on bats as part of a project funded by the US National Institutes of Health, which continues to licence the Wuhan laboratory to receive American money for experiments.

The news that COVID-19 bats were under research there means that a leak from the Wuhan laboratory can no longer be completely ruled out.

The Wuhan Institute, which keeps more than 1,500 strains of deadly viruses, specializes in the research of 'the most dangerous pathogens', in particular the viruses carried by bats.

American biosecurity expert Professor Richard Ebright, of Rutgers University's Waksman Institute of Microbiology, New Jersey, said that while the evidence suggests COVID-19 was not created in one of the Wuhan laboratories, it could easily have escaped from there while it was being analyzed.

Prof Ebright said he has seen evidence that scientists at the Centre for Disease Control and the Institute of Virology studied the viruses with only 'level 2' security – rather than the recommended level 4 – which 'provides only minimal protections against infection of lab workers'.

He added: 'Virus collection, culture, isolation, or animal infection would pose a substantial risk of infection of a lab worker, and from the lab worker then the public.'

He concluded that the evidence left 'a basis to rule out [that coronavirus is] a lab construct, but no basis to rule out a lab accident'.

Dee said...

Hi, I hope you all, Expat and the usual suspects in the comments are doing okay, all things considered.

Salon has an interesting article on, which kind of drives home most of my earlier points.

It explains very well the very real distinction between the ideas of viruses being "bio-engineered" and "stemming from a lab". Common methods for example "serial passage in animals" which provided almost a loop around regulation on restrictions but can end up with just as deadly specimen. Anyway, just read the well sourced article.