You're[sic] "position" on our mathematical calculations re the "artificiality" of Elenin are as intellectually pretentious as they are demonstrably ignorant of the fundamental process of the scientific method itself.
Sorry, but that's the way it is.
The most basic rule of the scientific process states:
"There are NO 'special places' in the Universe."
Translation:
The Laws of Physics work as well "a million light years from the Earth" ... as ON the Earth itself.
:
It is by using those ... UNIVERSAL LAWS of "gravitation" and "planetary motion" ... that we have PROVEN that the basic trajectory of Elenin has been, overwhelmingly--
ARTIFICIALLY CREATED!
Whether Elenin does ANYTHING on that artrificial trajectory ... beyond sailing through the inner solar system and returning to interstellar space ... is totally irrelevant to these fundamental questions:
Is Elenin an artificially DIRECTED object?
And--
Is there "intelligent life" somewhere beyond the Eearth ... which has SENT Elenin to us ... for some specific Reason?
Clearly, based on our analysis of its orbit alone ... the answer to BOTH questions is "yes!"
"What" Elenin may (or may NOT) "do" ON that artficial orbit, is a totally separate (and currently unknown) question ....
:
I really hope there are "fireworks" coming in September or October around Elenin ....
To be brutally honest (and selfish), if there are, it will make my life MUCH easier. :)
But, if there aren't ... that still WON'T change ONE IOTA the demonstrable, scientific FACT now that Elenin's orbit is,
irrevocably--
ARTIFICIAL!
Regradless[sic] of anyone's "opinion" ... including, Elenin's. :)
Stay tuned. :)
That last swipe was in reference to somebody else reminding him that Leonid Elenin himself, a qualified mathematician and astronomer with access to professional instruments, has characterized the idea that the comet is artificial as "trash."
I guess he's learned a bit since last year. In 2010 he spent the whole summer shrieking that the EPSC conference in Rome would prove him right about Phobos. Of course, it didn't—so now he's saying "Maybe nothing will happen in October, but I'll still be right."
The key to this nonsense, of course, is that expression "based on our analysis of its orbit." Hoagland has not presented any such analysis except to the punters in Leeds who sat through four hours of his drivel. Neither, for that matter, has he produced any shred of evidence for his other current claim: the artificiality of Vesta.
Not to worry—a "paper" on both topics will appear on the enterprisemission web site in two weeks. Probably accompanied by Part II of "The Bees' Needs," Part III of "Von Braun's Secret," and Part VII of "Moon With a View." Oh, plus a MAJOR PAPER on the Gulf Oil Spill, promised more than a year ago.
Hoagland, in the same thread, left us in no doubt of a) his own rampant paranoia, and b) his capacity for bare-faced lying to suit his case:
There were (and still are0 a few other scientists like us ... Dr. Thomas Van Flandern ... Dr. Bruce DePalma ... Dr. Gene Malloff .. who were ALSO "independently funded" in their research, and therefore could speak the truth.
And, to a man -- they have ALL been murdered.
As "they" tried also to do to ME ... twelve years ago.
Now for the facts:
Tom Van Flandern was employed by the United States Naval Observatory, not noted for its independence. He died of cancer. NOTE: In "Dark Mission," Hoagland accuses Van Flandern of treachery because he missed an opportunity to worship his (Hoagland's) theories.
Bruce DePalma was undoubtedly an independent thinker. He died in New Zealand of alcoholism.
Eugene Mallove (please note the correct spelling) was, like Hoagland himself, a science journalist and commentator rather than a scientist as such. UNLIKE Hoagland, he actually had some university education. He was murdered in 2004.
In April 1999 Hoagland had a heart attack while campaigning for something-or-other in Miami. Not unusual for a 54-year old man, one might think.
I hope you noticed that expression "scientists like us." Hoagland must be simultaneously channeling Albert Einstein and Henry VIII.
19 comments:
First, shouldn't it be "Your position....is pretentious" not "Your position...are pretentious"?
Second, yes he is preparing for the big "ho hum" moment when no one detects anything (not even in their dreams) coming from Elenin. The problem for him this time (unlike last year) is that he (and the not so fine folks at Project Camelot) has up until now, been charging for this information. There are people who spent a chunk of their disposable income to "be in on the know". If it turns sour on him, it won't just be a matter of "thanks for wasting my summer, jerk!". So he has to cover his ass on this one.
I note in passing that Hoagland's statement about the universality of the laws of physics is in conflict with the opinion of his loony and underqualified co-author.
Mike Bara writes that "All Physics is Local."
And Bara is supposed to be the "engineer" of the two.
Expat,
A quick question. Did you let Aaron know you were going to use his name in your post? I know the FB page stuff is public, but you are helping him make enemies by mentioning him here.
No, I didn't. I really don't think it's necessary since I didn't quote him.
His potential "enemies" can still read his full text, I believe. So can his friends.
After reading the original exchange, I'd have to agree. Aaron did a fine job on his own of making enemies. I'm guessing he's probably been banned by now.
I always get a laugh out of Hoagie and Mike's paranoia and how they are terrified of being outed by some scientist working for The Man.
I was thinking recently, another difference between real scientists like Sagan, Phil Plait, Neil DeGrasse Tyson and phonies like Hoagie and Mike is who lies awake all night worrying that their theories might be blown away in an instant by some inconvenient "facts".
Hint: it ain't the former.
If you want proof that "Great Minds Think Alike", go to Robin Falkov's page sometime. Scroll down about half way (past the ozone generating anti e-coli advertisement) and read the section headed "The Gulf Tragedy Unfolds and Continues Its Damage" about her efforts to bring Homeopathy to the suffering people of the Gulf. She's in her late 50s by now but reading it I thought she was 15.
Health Freedom Rights, Inc.
Act Now to Protect Your Health Freedom Rights, All Your Rights! The Life You Save May Be Your Own!
http://www.healthfreedomrights.com/
You'll understand right away why they make such a happy couple.
strahlungsamt,
Another difference is which one of them with an FB page spends a great deal of time deleting no-goodnick thoughts on it. Hoagland spends close to all his waking hours monitoring and editing his page. Plait, Tyson, and Kaku could care less. They have what is known as "a life". :)
I dunno, I think they've shown themselves to be immune to facts.
"In a stunning confirmation of hyperdimensional physics, Comet Elenin will come to perihelion on 9/11."
"Er... it's 9/10 Richard."
"It'll be 9/11 in Sri Lanka."
"No it won't."
"It'll be 9/11 SOMEWHERE."
"True. Did you say STUNNING?"
Expat,
It's the Hoagland version of natural (or unnatural) selection. He goes out of his way to antagonize and throw out anyone with any kind of critical thinking skills. So what is left is the most gullible among us. That these same people are also the least likely to be able to afford his books and DVDs is just an interesting irony.
I sincerely hope those good, hard-working, put-upon people of the Gulf States told Dr. Falkov where she could put her succussed (or is it successed? She doesn't seem sure) remedies.
My guess is gullibility is a requirement for hanging out with Hoagland 24/7. :)
Let's thank whoever uploaded that awful conference
that took guts
you know
it's thievery
but bad can be good
BU,
I'm pretty sure thievery involves taking something of value. :)
Oh for those who don't know, Hoagie has come up with another grand excuse why all those space ships NASA keeps taking pictures of look "natural". Apparently, the beings who built them used nanotechnology that used the natural materials of the asteroid/moon/comet to build the ship. Praise the gods of unfalsifiablity.
Let's acknowledge the great poet Alexander Pope; in whose Essay on Man, Epistle II
the quote occurs:
Know, then, thyself, presume not God to scan;
The proper study of mankind is man.
Placed on this isthmus of a middle state,
A being darkly wise, and rudely great:
With too much knowledge for the sceptic side,
With too much weakness for the stoic’s pride,
He hangs between; in doubt to act, or rest;
In doubt to deem himself a god, or beast;
In doubt his mind or body to prefer;
Born but to die, and reasoning but to err;
Alike in ignorance, his reason such,
Whether he thinks too little, or too much:
Chaos of thought and passion, all confused;
Still by himself abused, or disabused;
Created half to rise, and half to fall;
Great lord of all things, yet a prey to all;
Sole judge of truth, in endless error hurled:
The glory, jest, and riddle of the world!
So what is left is the most gullible among us. That these same people are also the least likely to be able to afford his books and DVDs is just an interesting irony.
These same people are also the ones who can sit through 3 hours of Hoagland and think they are hearing something profound.
I'm not a psychologist but I think I'm on to something here.
I first hear hoaxland in 1991? I called Art alot back then and in 1997 i told RCH that if there is anything 'out there' its us i.e. us from the past or something to that effect. RCH said in response 'i like to sit down and talk with this guy'. Well I showed up a week later to San Diego and RCH refused to talk, ignored me and acted like he never spoke to me!
Then in 2006 we talked; but i did not talk about anything, i was asking him about things and his response was you got to pay to hear me. The last time i paid was 2008 in LA when I was a day early looking for him sitting at the bar i called over to Richard to come over and i said to him 'thanks you Richard i no longer believe in god'. He said we need to talk! The next day i tried to talk with him put this Red head chief of security Robin would not let me talk to him, so I waited in line after his boring talk and crappy pictures and when i got to him he would not look up, would not make any eye contact it was then that i started calling him Richard Hoaxland.
My posts get deleted most of the time from his page and i get attacked on FB. In may I got 100's of hate mail for the post that suggested Hoaxland gives little or no credit to others namely Andrew D.Basiago. On Coast a caller asked Hoaxland about Basiago's life on mars paper and Hoaxland called him a 'nut'. When i posted that Hoaxland is the lone nut that can't play with others 100's of Hoaxies attacked me on FB.
My only defense to FB was that i have followed Hoaxland for 20 years and that Dick is a lier!
Francisco,
Hoagland is primarily driven by ego and commercial interests. The FB page is just a way to maintain his fan base. All talk of mutual learning and such is just that, talk. He is selling Hoagland's View of the World(tm), which means that anything not connected to that view (and thus not marketable as Hoagland's Own) gets dumped into the memory hole. You were useful to him in a radio conversation, but he doesn't really care what you (or anyone) thinks.
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